Color interiors for phb 5th printing?

[tylermo]

Stephen C. recently mentioned the possibility of color interiors for the upcoming 5th printing of the C&C phb. Sounds like most or all of the artwork on the inside will be the same, except with color. I assume there might be the possibility of color backgrounds, etc.? What do you think? I assume this will require the use of glossy pages? I remember glossy not working too well with phb 3rd printing and m&t 2nd printing. Of course, that was just black and white text and images. Seems like the pages could get a bit wavy in areas where moisture is in the air. That said, maybe the pages for 5th printing will be of a higher grade. I'm still sort of torn at the moment. I love the classic look of the black & white illustrations, but color is tempting. Speak up. Stephen doesn't read posts on the forums anyway.

[Sir Ironside]

I hate gloss paper, I don't mind colour in the book, but it won't be a selling point to me, but I'll bet it will be for a lot of others as I've heard, plenty of times (Over at the big purple machine.) that players dismiss rpg books because of the lack of colour interiors. I've always found that idiotic, but it exists.

Gamers these days are spoiled. They want high page count, colour pages, with flawless rules for under $40. When TLG is competing with the likes of Paizo and WotC for shelf space, these things become important. Even with the old-school renaissance happening.

In a nut shell, I like the black and white pictures but I won't be put off if TLG goes colour. It just doesn't really matter to me. (Well I guess, a little, if the art/pictures are poser art like GURPS products.)

[mbeacom]

I'm not going to lie, I like the idea of a full color printing. I don't really have a position on whether or not it will lead to greater adoption or shelf space. I just don't know. I'd only be guessing. As for me, I'm also much like sir ironside in that I'm quite fond of the old school look and feel of the black and white so not having color doesn't hurt my feelings. One thing I would say is that i think Peters art is more conducive to color than the old stuff was. You lost nothing from having the original MM illos in B&W. But Peters art has to sacrifice a lot in the transition because he uses color to such great effect. I would just be curious what a full color glossy C&C PHB would look like. I will say this, I'm no fan of the look and feel of the 3.5 or PFRPG products. Their pages are way over produced and gaudy for my tastes. The faux parchment look with elaborate ink stains does nothing but make the books harder to read. The original 3E books are almost painful to look at.
I much prefer the look and feel of the wotc 4E books. I also really like the direction they went with their covers, where the main cover is matte finish while the important parts are glossy. I have no idea if this is wildly cost prohibitive and I'm not advocating it, just commenting on it. The 4E books are a joy to hold and read with elegant clean layouts without feeling overproduced. This is much the same feeling I got when I first opened the 4th printing C&C PHB after I had been used to using my old 1st printing. They layout and organization was beautiful. If you can do the same and add color, I have to think it would be a gorgeous product to behold.

[Omote]

Either or. Or, if color plates were added in, that would be cool too.

~O

[mbeacom]

I'd like to add one comment/request. My apologies if this is controversial or offends. I would like to float the idea that maybe a new character image could be chosen for the Ranger class. Not that the current image is not great. It is. But the current image makes the Ranger out to be focused on two weapon fighting, which, to my reading of the C&C rules, the class is not focused on such. Players first real impression of what a class is all about comes from that big bold image during their first read through. The ranger as two weapon fighter is a staple of later editions of D&D but one that is not wholely valid IMO for reasons I won't go into. Anyway, the writeup talks about Rangers using sword and shield but that their true strength lies in hunting and evasion. The image used for Rangers doesn't really speak to the text chosen for the class. I would love to see an image that evokes the hunter nature of the Ranger, as it is described in the PHB writeup. Anyway, I've said my peace, hopefully nobody hates me for it. :-/

[dachda]

I'd like to add one comment/request. My apologies if this is controversial or offends. I would like to float the idea that maybe a new character image could be chosen for the Ranger class. Not that the current image is not great. It is. But the current image makes the Ranger out to be focused on two weapon fighting, which, to my reading of the C&C rules, the class is not focused on such. Players first real impression of what a class is all about comes from that big bold image during their first read through. The ranger as two weapon fighter is a staple of later editions of D&D but one that is not wholely valid IMO for reasons I won't go into. Anyway, the writeup talks about Rangers using sword and shield but that their true strength lies in hunting and evasion. The image used for Rangers doesn't really speak to the text chosen for the class. I would love to see an image that evokes the hunter nature of the Ranger, as it is described in the PHB writeup. Anyway, I've said my peace, hopefully nobody hates me for it. :-/

I agree with your thoughts on the Ranger picture. Like to see perhaps a hooded, leather armored, figure aiming his bow at some prey (humanoid or otherwise).

[Ancalagon]

I hate gloss paper, I don't mind colour in the book, but it won't be a selling point to me, but I'll bet it will be for a lot of others as I've heard, plenty of times (Over at the big purple machine.) that players dismiss rpg books because of the lack of colour interiors. I've always found that idiotic, but it exists. <snip>

I don't care for glossy paper. In my experience, the pages tend to exude an slightly unpleasant smell from the inks used. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook in particular has the unpleasant smell and my eyes were irritated while sitting and reading the text.

[Arduin]

I would like to float the idea that maybe a new character image could be chosen for the Ranger class.

Also for the Gnome. Since when are they a breed of donkey???

[tylermo]

I think there may be a funny story behind the Gnome. Stephen loves Gnomes.

[tylermo]

I remember one or two folks saying they didn't care for the picture of the monk in the 4th printing. Other than that, I don't remember much else. As for the cover, I've always been a big believe in using the artwork from the portrait gm's screen for the phb cover. That pic pretty much says it all.

[Frost]

I would like to float the idea that maybe a new character image could be chosen for the Ranger class.

Also for the Gnome. Since when are they a breed of donkey???

I actually like the C&C gnome. My understanding is they intentionally tried to make them look like something other than dwarves with pointy hats.

[Lord Dynel]

I would like to float the idea that maybe a new character image could be chosen for the Ranger class.

Also for the Gnome. Since when are they a breed of donkey???

I actually like the C&C gnome. My understanding is they intentionally tried to make them look like something other than dwarves with pointy hats.

Yeah, the C&C gnome is just...different. I don't mind it, per se, but gnomes are portrayed in my campaigns in the traditional D&D style. It's just too ingrained in me not to do so.

[gideon_thorne]

Stephen C. recently mentioned the possibility of color interiors for the upcoming 5th printing of the C&C phb. Sounds like most or all of the artwork on the inside will be the same, except with color. I assume there might be the possibility of color backgrounds, etc.? What do you think? I assume this will require the use of glossy pages? I remember glossy not working too well with phb 3rd printing and m&t 2nd printing. Of course, that was just black and white text and images. Seems like the pages could get a bit wavy in areas where moisture is in the air. That said, maybe the pages for 5th printing will be of a higher grade. I'm still sort of torn at the moment. I love the classic look of the black & white illustrations, but color is tempting. Speak up. Stephen doesn't read posts on the forums anyway.

Well, from a purely technical standpoint, I should note that gloss paper isn't necessarily needed for colour pages. There are a wide variety of smooth finish papers that can be used to make the colours more vibrant. They don't need to be gloss, something like a bright white 60 lb laser paper works just as well. I'll be sure to talk this over with Steve when it comes time for printing.

[alcyone]

I generally don't care much about color/non-color, but generally will choose black and white if I have the choice, because much of the time it removes the temptation to put a smeary background in that makes things hard to read (or the faux ruled parchment look in 3.5).

However, Arcana Evolved is in color and is really a pleasure to look at without creating an impediment to actually reading it. Something of that quality I'd consider pre-ordering.

[tylermo]

Thanks, Peter. BTW, the color versions of the paladin, and one of the other phb pictures look great. I think that new phb cover is going to be groovy, as well. Can't wait to see the finished product. I told Stephen to channel the portrait gm screen art for some inspiration. So far, it looks like it's going that way.

I agree about overdone backgrounds in rpg books. Not my cup of tea.

[MormonYoYoMan]

Thanks, Peter. BTW, the color versions of the paladin, and one of the other phb pictures look great. I think that new phb cover is going to be groovy, as well. Can't wait to see the finished product. I told Stephen to channel the portrait gm screen art for some inspiration. So far, it looks like it's going that way.

I agree about overdone backgrounds in rpg books. Not my cup of tea.

I am so happy to find someone is old enough to remember "groovy."

[tylermo]

Well, I'll be 42 later this year, so I'm not old-old, but I watched my share of the Brady Bunch reruns in the 70's.

[MormonYoYoMan]

42? Bah, you're a youngster.

Also, you're the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything.

[tylermo]

An, Dougie Adams. I'm the answer to all of that? I very much doubt it. Just ask my ex-wife.

[western watcher]

I'm not opposed to color interiors for phb5 if it doesn't drive the price up too much.

[moriarty777]

I'm not opposed to color interiors for phb5 if it doesn't drive the price up too much.

Price mentioned to me was $30 ... so a $5 jump.

I'm not sure if I will follow to a 5th printing. At least not right away.

EV is fine for me and SR works without clarification for me.

M

[finarvyn]

Thanks, Peter. BTW, the color versions of the paladin, and one of the other phb pictures look great. I think that new phb cover is going to be groovy, as well.

Did I miss a link or a thread somewhere on this? Where are the sample pictures?

[tylermo]

I think maybe it was c&c's Facebook page.

[mostrojoe]

Colour is on par with modern standards, so it is just the natural evolution of a product like C&C.