The Godentag... wtf?

[treant_on_fire]

1d6+3 ONE-HANDED???

Seriously?

Also, from the videos I've seen of it, it's a two-handed weapon. But any weapon that does 4 damage MINIMUM and ONE-HANDED before modifiers is seriously unbalanced!

[redwullf]

1d6+3 ONE-HANDED???

Seriously?

Also, from the videos I've seen of it, it's a two-handed weapon. But any weapon that does 4 damage MINIMUM and ONE-HANDED before modifiers is seriously unbalanced!

House rule it to be a two-hander and all will be right in your universe once more.

[treant_on_fire]

1d6+3 ONE-HANDED???

Seriously?

Also, from the videos I've seen of it, it's a two-handed weapon. But any weapon that does 4 damage MINIMUM and ONE-HANDED before modifiers is seriously unbalanced!

House rule it to be a two-hander and all will be right in your universe once more.

I know, I was just hoping someone would go "Chill, Treant, chill! It's actual a mistake, don't you ever bother to read erratas?"

:p

Also, I'd probably make it a 1d10 at this point. Or maybe a 1d12 to compensate for the fact that the insane minimum damage is gone.

[redwullf]

You're probably referring to this video, at least in part. Clearly it's a two-handed weapon if this is the source. You can also surmise that it was widely regarded to be a bad-ass weapon, thus the high damage.

However, if you do, indeed, treat this as a two-handed weapon, here are some factors to keep in mind. As you point out, it's minimum damage is high. Yes, that's true, and this implies that against common forces, a single blow is likely to be lethal. However, it's top damage isn't as high as many other two-handers, so it'll fall short on that end. In fact, it only does 1pt more than many one-handed, 1d8 weapon (i.e. longsword, mace, so forth). I think making this bad-boy two-handed doesn't leave it unbalanced on the high damage end, but puts it into a unique niche useful for wiping our hordes of low HD opponents (goblins, typical militia, etc.).

[treant_on_fire]

You're probably referring to this video, at least in part. Clearly it's a two-handed weapon if this is the source. You can also surmise that it was widely regarded to be a bad-ass weapon, thus the high damage.

However, if you do, indeed, treat this as a two-handed weapon, here are some factors to keep in mind. As you point out, it's minimum damage is high. Yes, that's true, and this implies that against common forces, a single blow is likely to be lethal. However, it's top damage isn't as high as many other two-handers, so it'll fall short on that end. In fact, it only does 1pt more than many one-handed, 1d8 weapon (i.e. longsword, mace, so forth). I think making this bad-boy two-handed doesn't leave it unbalanced on the high damage end, but puts it into a unique niche useful for wiping our hordes of low HD opponents (goblins, typical militia, etc.).

I don't know, even comparing it to two-handed weapons...

I'd make it two-handed AT LEAST. I'd probably leave it as is like you said though, if I consider one weapon of that category deals 1d12 and the Flamberge is 2d4+2 (basically a 1d8+3!)

As a one-handed weapon though, it's broken.

[moriarty777]

It could be an error. Back when I got the 2nd printing, I noticed the ridiculous damage that was listed for a 'poinard' which basically a type of dagger (French). When it was put in, someone thought it was a sort of polearm which explained the original damage that had been assigned. It was subsequently corrected.

There are a few other weapons that don't make complete sense -- especially when considering things like EV and other similar weapons but in the end, it's more of a game and less of a simulation.

Let common sense be your guide.

M

[treant_on_fire]

It could be an error. Back when I got the 2nd printing, I noticed the ridiculous damage that was listed for a 'poinard' which basically a type of dagger (French). When it was put in, someone thought it was a sort of polearm which explained the original damage that had been assigned. It was subsequently corrected.

There are a few other weapons that don't make complete sense -- especially when considering things like EV and other similar weapons but in the end, it's more of a game and less of a simulation.

Let common sense be your guide.

M

Yeah, but one time I had a player pick up that weapon just because of how unbalanced it was. I kind of dislike when a weapon is such an obvious choice over all others because of such a factor. I think I might start using the weapons list from 3.5 when playing C&C, one thing you can say about it is that weapons are more balanced. I still really like the Main-Gauche and its AC bonus option though!

[CKDad]

You'll find your players ditching the godentags once they realize that no magical versions exist.

But yes, it is pretty sick, and cheap. It's the sort of thing I picture ogres wielding one-handed when plowing through the shield walls...

[maasenstodt]

I rolled up a half-orc fighter tonight for a new game that my group just started. After the +1 racial modifier to Strength, he ended up with an 18 - the first time I've ever had that.

Anyhow, after seeing this thread earlier today and watching the linked video, I thought the godentag would be a great fit for him. Sure enough, he made good use of it when he clobbered two orcs in succession (using the Cleaving Strike advantage from the CKG) before whiffing on a hobgoblin. Good times!

[treant_on_fire]

I rolled up a half-orc fighter tonight for a new game that my group just started. After the +1 racial modifier to Strength, he ended up with an 18 - the first time I've ever had that.

Anyhow, after seeing this thread earlier today and watching the linked video, I thought the godentag would be a great fit for him. Sure enough, he made good use of it when he clobbered two orcs in succession (using the Cleaving Strike advantage from the CKG) before whiffing on a hobgoblin. Good times!

Glad to help... o.O

lol

[Relaxo]

Damn! My whole morning shot watching Conquest. LOL might be my new favorite show.
He really sells the Gotentag.

[Omote]

Godentag. It's god damned amazing is what it is. However, in my games, it's a rare weapon even if it is on the normal C&C weapons list and only, generally available in one particular region.

~O

[redwullf]

Godentag. It's god damned amazing is what it is. However, in my games, it's a rare weapon even if it is on the normal C&C weapons list and only, generally available in one particular region.

~O

How do you keep a heavy table leg with steel spikes driven through it "rare?" Ogres could think that up.

[Relaxo]

Yeah, it was "easy for the local blacksmith to make" (quoting the conquest TV clip)

This i don't get: spears have wooden shafts, so they can be cut thru by broadswords (this was how Conquest said spears are not great weapons vs knights in armor) but doesn't this Godentag have a wooden shaft? is it just much thicker? and therefore tougher?

[Omote]

Godentag. It's god damned amazing is what it is. However, in my games, it's a rare weapon even if it is on the normal C&C weapons list and only, generally available in one particular region.

~O

How do you keep a heavy table leg with steel spikes driven through it "rare?" Ogres could think that up.

For your game, you can make up whatever reason you want. By using the "table leg with nails" method, I would simply that that is a club (1d6+1) with nails driven through it (+1 damage) for a total of 1d6+2 damage.. Because the weapon is not made by a properly trained weaponsmith the 1d6+2 version of this weapon is -1 to hit. Additionally if you roll a natural 1 to hit, you have a 30% chance of breaking the weapon. If you want a properly made, true godentag, you get the 1d6+3 method with no break chance. Of course, I do this for virtually all poorly made weapons in my campaigns.

~O

[Relaxo]

or... story hook, it could be banned by the law.

[redwullf]

or... story hook, it could be banned by the law.

Ooooh. I like that. Maybe the godentag was used to fell a cousin of the King in battle some two or three generations ago, now an outlaw band of anti-monarchs are using them (specifically) to step up their violent rebellion, making it a symbol of their movement.

Just thinking on my feet here, but I like the idea.

[Ancalagon]

Don't be a victim to WotC's "balance plague", treant_on_fire.

[Relaxo]

Ooooh. I like that. Maybe the godentag was used to fell a cousin of the King in battle some two or three generations ago, now an outlaw band of anti-monarchs are using them (specifically) to step up their violent rebellion, making it a symbol of their movement.

Just thinking on my feet here, but I like the idea.

The Godentag Revolution!

"We fought, and we won. The blood of the tyrant was spilled by the spiked fury of justice. It was, truly, a good day."

(or something I'm no Bard)

[Lurker]

Well in an earlier thread I brought up the history of this weapon and story about it's name. (by the way I do love it).

Ooooh. I like that. Maybe the godentag was used to fell a cousin of the King in battle some two or three generations ago, now an outlaw band of anti-monarchs are using them (specifically) to step up their violent rebellion, making it a symbol of their movement

Nice, especially when you know the history of it!

but doesn't this Godentag have a wooden shaft? is it just much thicker? and therefore tougher?

Rgr, the shaft is significantly thicker than a spear (but not as long), so yeah harder to cut through. However, that is getting into micro effects, so don't concider it in my games

You'll find your players ditching the godentags once they realize that no magical versions exist

Not true in my home brew, or it won't be once I finish my MA and have enough free time to actually run my home brew ...

[Relaxo]

Right, in game terms the shaft thickness is not a factor (let's keep our minds out of the gutter, folks ) I was referring to the video (again, let's keep it clean).

LOL!

[Lurker]

Right, in game terms the shaft thickness is not a factor (let's keep our minds out of the gutter, folks ) I was referring to the video (again, let's keep it clean).

LOL!

[Arduin]

Interesting weapon (video). Very slow to wield. I'd hate to be using it against a good swordsman...

[CKDad]

Interesting weapon (video). Very slow to wield. I'd hate to be using it against a good swordsman...

That's what Weapon Speed factors are for.

/ducks behind cover

[treant_on_fire]

Don't be a victim to WotC's "balance plague", treant_on_fire.

I'm not a victim of anything, that weapon is broken by any standards you want to apply! :p

I also happen to WUV 3.5! >__>

That doesn't mean I'd put C&C under the same magnifier as 3.5 though, as both have very different goals. My problem is what I mentioned, when something becomes the obvious choice by a long shot. It's not even just "This weapon deals +1 more and only a min/maxer would notice it", it's really "4 damage MINIMUM, more if you have a Str bonus! (And let's face it, if you're wielding a Godentag, you have a Str bonus!)

And sure, you'll say "How many magic Godentags are out there?" Well honestly if a character in one of my games chose Weapon Specialization with it, I wouldn't be a jerk about it and yes he'd have his damn magical godentag! >_<

Someone else could say "Well, it only makes a big difference in the early levels." Thing is, early levels in C&C last a long-a$$ time!

It's funny how WotC was brought up... Because I think I'd actually use the weapons found in their PHB even for a C&C game! (critical rules included)

[Traveller]

Actually, the question to be asked is, "How many godentags are there?"

Answer: two. The two-handed godentag is a Flemish polearm similar to a halberd. The French version is simply a morningstar, but using a fancy name.

Now that we know there are two, which of them was intended to be used in the equipment list?

Answer: based on the damage and other factors it was likely intended to be the polearm. Add an asterisk to your books boys, as this apparently is a typo in the book.

[Omote]

Are you kidding? Trolls don't fight with no fancy fightin' stick. Plus, the Germanic name clearly indicates that Trolls swing that thing in one hand to SMASH GOODER! One handed badass. Can't beat that with a stick.

~O

[Traveller]

Hey, you could easily be right. After all, the swords need to go on a diet. Everyone and their mother seems to think medieval swords are these 30lb. clumsy pieces of steel used solely for chopping. The reality is far different.

[maasenstodt]

Are you kidding? Trolls don't fight with no fancy fightin' stick. Plus, the Germanic name clearly indicates that Trolls swing that thing in one hand to SMASH GOODER! One handed badass. Can't beat that with a stick.

~O

Rock on! Godentag as a large, badass, one handed morningstar/spiked club for the win!

[Lurker]

Interesting weapon (video). Very slow to wield. I'd hate to be using it against a good swordsman...

That's what Weapon Speed factors are for.

/ducks behind cover

Rgr on that,

Hey, you could easily be right. After all, the swords need to go on a diet. Everyone and their mother seems to think medieval swords are these 30lb. clumsy pieces of steel used solely for chopping. The reality is far different.

true that too