Game of Thrones Books

[Relaxo]

So, I've heard good things about these, any good?

http://youtu.be/j7lp3RhzfgI

[CKDad]

YouTube is blocked at work, but I'm guessing you're leaking to either a) a clip from the show, or b) Paul & Storm's "Write Like The Wind (George R.R. Martin)".

Assuming your question is serious, unequivocally yes. It's a gritty, relatively low-fantasy setting, with compelling characters and story lines. But, be forewarned: lots of violence. Lots of sex. Lots of cruelty. Lots of characters being killed off in ways few other authors would ever dare.

But also moments of joy, of triumph, of redemption; they become all the more memorable because of the darkness surrounding them.

Plus, there's the Oath of the Night's Watch:

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

[Sir Ironside]

But, be forewarned: lots of violence. Lots of sex. Lots of cruelty. Lots of characters being killed off in ways few other authors would ever dare.

It amuses me that most North American readers rag on the sex stuff (Both the book and the TV program.) but never really comment on the many horrible death and tortures.

Possible spoilers.

In some cases you might feel that you know what direction the plot will take, but in the end you find out that you really don't know and all characters are not "safe". This somewhat changes, in the later books, where the story solidifies more, and some of the main characters seem less likely to have the axe of death exact its justice. There still is a feeling of a Ed Stark/Rob Stark kind of ending for the character, but it is just a feeling as reading the prior books you never feel comfortable that a character makes it to the end. It just seems more unlikely, as it becomes apparent that that character becomes too important to the story line. But, where you lose the feeling of all characters could be at deaths door, the "What next?" for surviving characters more than makes up for it.

I also found that characters that I wasn't very high on, Jamie Lanister, Sam Tully, Brienne of Tarth, Sansa Stark (insert your least favourite character) makes me do an about face as their character grow in each successive book. Especially Sam, who, in my opinion, becomes the second most important Night Watchmen outside of Jon Snow.

On the other side of the coin a character like Tyrion Lannister loses some of his luster that makes him such an enjoyable character.

Things you think you might never do. You will cheer for Joffrey, feel uncomfortably sorry for Theon Greyjoy, get a sense that Tyrion is not untouchable playing the game of thrones.

I still like the Mazalan books more than; The Story of Ice and Fire, but this series definitely is a very close 2nd.

[CKDad]

Dude. SPOILERS.

Also, the sex part doesn't bother me, but it's a big issue for some people, so I felt it best to point it out.

[Just Jeff]

But, be forewarned: lots of violence. Lots of sex. Lots of cruelty. Lots of characters being killed off in ways few other authors would ever dare.

It amuses me that most North American readers rag on the sex stuff (Both the book and the TV program.) but never really comment on the many horrible death and tortures.

Um... (points at what you quoted but without the emphasis you added)

[Lurker]

But, be forewarned: lots of violence. Lots of sex. Lots of cruelty. Lots of characters being killed off in ways few other authors would ever dare.

It amuses me that most North American readers rag on the sex stuff (Both the book and the TV program.) but never really comment on the many horrible death and tortures.

Um... (points at what you quoted but without the emphasis you added)

You beat me to it ...

- not being snarky on it, just in a joking nudge nudge wink wink way ...

[Omote]

I've read only the first book and part of the second. The first book is good, but for my reading tastes, I had one big problem with how GRRM is writing this series. I quickly grew tired with the story jumping around from character to character with so many chapters inbetween without finding out what happens. The sole reason why I stopped reading the books was because of these long gaps. I heard in some of the later books practically an entire book passes without getting back to a certain character. How annoying. And, it seemed there were too many new characters being introduced in the 2nd book vefore I gave up. Argh! I dunno, maybe I'm too impatient of a reader for that type of series.

That's not to say the books were not written well. I really enjoyed the first book in the series. The writing is very detailed and characters are complex and well developed.

Then I heard they were making a television show.

Perhaps, one day I will dive back into the novels. But only when my tolerance and patience for such things develop.

~O

[Sir Ironside]

Dude. SPOILERS.

I don't consider them spoilers as they are so vague. I purposely did so because I didn't want to do any kind of spoilers. I hate them as much as the next guy. I'm going to assume that you have read the books, and because of the knowledge it might appear as a spoiler. I highly doubt anyone who hasn't read the books would find it a spoiler.

Paragraph 2 doesn't say that there aren't deaths.

Paragraph 3 and 4 is my opinion with little to go on.

Paragraph 4 is a "What the???" kind.

I've done the same with people I know and it didn't give them any clues just a wonder of what is next.

Sorry if anyone took it as a spoiler. It wasn't my intent.

I've changed the colour for a "black-out" spoiler thing.

But, be forewarned: lots of violence. Lots of sex. Lots of cruelty. Lots of characters being killed off in ways few other authors would ever dare.

It amuses me that most North American readers rag on the sex stuff (Both the book and the TV program.) but never really comment on the many horrible death and tortures.

Um... (points at what you quoted but without the emphasis you added)

I was pointing out a region of people and not CKDad specifically. As a matter of fact my post had nothing to do with CKDad.

BTW I live in Canada so I get to see it first hand. It isn't who is better or more righteous just an observation, that amuses me.

[SaveVsFail]

I like the ASoIaF stuff quite a bit and I think it's one of the best fantasy series out there, that said... with as slow as the books are coming and as much of a grind that the latest one was. I feel like its something Im invested in and kinda committed to finishing.

Like Ironside said, the Malazan series is amazing as well, even if the first book in it can be hard to get through, the second hands down is one of my favorite fantasy novels ever. The Malazan series can fall down because at times it feels like oyu are reading someones fanfic about their DnD game, and you are, so there's that to contend with, but at the end of the day theres a fully realized world with its own lore and logic and it all plays nicely together.

[Sir Ironside]

Like Ironside said, the Malazan series is amazing as well, even if the first book in it can be hard to get through

Didn't find this at all. I have a low tolerance when reading a new series. Simply there are just so many books, that I want to read, and so little time, if the first book doesn't grab me in some way, then usually that is it.

the second hands down is one of my favorite fantasy novels ever.

Agreed about the awesome.

The Malazan series can fall down because at times it feels like oyu are reading someones fanfic about their DnD game, and you are, so there's that to contend with,

I don't get this at all. It is well written and one of the most cohesive series I've read to date. The D&D reference puzzled me to. I don't get a D&D vibe anymore than any other fantasy series.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm just pointing out that everyone might have a different opinion. Which obviously we do. I don't want to turn some off just because they are led to believe that this is just some kind of D&D fanfic. You ever read fanfic? Most of it is pretty bad.

[SaveVsFail]

Well it's always been stated that the series is essentially story of Erickson/Esslemont's long running AD&D/GURPS game, so there's that.

I agree quality wise it's not fan-fic level obviously, but there are maybe half a dozen or so characters I can point to and be like, yeah, that was someone's PC. To me, that's not a bad thing, I love the series I just know more than a few folks that has turned off. Several of my co workers in fact, even though I keep pestering them to go back and read the series. To me it's mostly a good thing because as I mentioned Erikson and Esslemont both have a very clear picture of how the internal logic of their world works, hell it's had nearly 30 yrs of development, it would shock me if they didn't by now.

As for the first book personally I had a hard time getting through it just due to how dense it was and how much stuff is thrown at you. I know I'm not the only one as I've seen a lot of other folks on various mesageboards mention it as well. I actually have a friend who recommends reading Deadhouse Gates first and then going to Gardens of the Moon. I don't know if I agree or not as I haven't field tested it on anyone

As an aside, this, from another board is how I now pitch the series to people who read a lot of fantasy stuff...

"Its a lot like if the Black Company was sent on a suicide mission to blow up Sanctuary after getting their asses kicked by Elric, then after beating the Dominator they teamed up with Elric, Corum, and Hawkmoon to take on Paul Muad-Dib and the Fremen but first they had to defeat an empire of undead t-rex borg with swords for arms. Fortunately, they've got an army of Neanderthal liche-warriors who pretty much exist solely to destroy t-rex borg with swords for arms and other world-killing threats. And that's just, like, one storyline from the first three books."

[gideon_thorne]

Far as Game of Thrones goes, I can't get through either books or HBO series without being completely bored. And this is from a person that typically enjoys long and complex fantasy series. Obviously, I am not with the majority on this one. But then again, I rarely find myself with the majority on anything.

[Relaxo]

Well it's always been stated that the series is essentially story of Erickson/Esslemont's long running AD&D/GURPS game, so there's that. ... but there are maybe half a dozen or so characters I can point to and be like, yeah, that was someone's PC.

that
is
AWESOME!!!!

As an aside, this, from another board is how I now pitch the series to people who read a lot of fantasy stuff...

"Its a lot like if the Black Company was sent on a suicide mission to blow up Sanctuary after getting their asses kicked by Elric, then after beating the Dominator they teamed up with Elric, Corum, and Hawkmoon to take on Paul Muad-Dib and the Fremen but first they had to defeat an empire of undead t-rex borg with swords for arms. Fortunately, they've got an army of Neanderthal liche-warriors who pretty much exist solely to destroy t-rex borg with swords for arms and other world-killing threats. And that's just, like, one storyline from the first three books."

OK, I'm sold.
Good pitch!

[Breakdaddy]

Haven't read the books but after watching season 1 of the HBO series in its entirety, I've zero interest in ever doing so. YMMV of course, otherwise GRRM wouldnt have the following that he does. I also must admit that the books might be much better than the series but I was un-sold by the mediocrity of the meandering storyline in the televised rendition.