Treasure Glut like a Hang-Over!

[Snoring Rock]

Have you ever gone to a party thinking you would take it easy and you had everything under control, and then woke up the next morning, eyes all blood-shot, wondering why you did what you did the night before?

Well, I did just that with a session I ran in my campaign a few days ago. I play a status-quo game. I don’t go around changing things as the party gets there. If they stumble on a dragon, they defeat it or run. I give them clues so they know what they are getting into, but if they choose to do unwise things, it’s their TPK.

Well, things were going fine until they stumbled on a group of zombies that had wandered into the city sewer with a stash of temple jewels. The evil clerics did not give correct instructions and they just wandered off in search of someone to guard the jewels from. So, the party runs into this bunch of misinformed zombies and takes them out. To their amazement, the zombies had some great loot. Mistake #1: I converted 3.x material to C&C on the fly and randomly determined jewelry value from the M&T. I was not paying attention to the overall value.

This left the heroes with a blank check in a big city. They surfaced and began shopping. They have hired expert armorers and mages to construct armor for them, even after figuring it at incredibly high prices. Mistake #2: I was not prepared for these players to bombard me with requests for magic armor in a city where it was possible, but not exactly easy. They should have had to develop relationships and eventually met the right people. I just kind of gave them access they really had not yet earned.

Now I have a party waiting at the local inn, for the experts to finish crafting arms and armor that is a bit above their level to possess. I need to “un-do” this mess and correct the amount of treasure and city contacts. Or I need to fix it some other way. Turning the hands of time back and having a do-over will just aggravate the players. Or I could have the owners of the loot discover these guys fencing stolen goods all over town, and get them in an intrigue where they die or earn the right to carry the cool weapons and armor.
Any suggestions for curing my gaming hang-over?

[mbeacom]

This is precisely why they created the Rust Monster (M&T page 71) and the Disenchanter (Classic Monsters pg 38).

Barring that however, I very much like the idea that a more powerful group of adventurers finds out about the loot and comes after it. They could fight this stronger adventuring party who isn't exactly evil (will steal their stuff but not kill them) and then they have some long term enemies/competitors to contend without throughout the campaign. You could even have them steal stuff back and forth, helping and hurting each other as they do so. Perhaps they are forced to group up together to defeat a more powerful enemy, but then your PCs get betrayed and lose some gear.

[IronWolf]

I definitely think there is a plot hook in there for something to happen to the hired armorers and mages that were commissioned for the work. Perhaps a string of murders begins, the common element? Each person murdered is someone hired by the party to do the crafting work. That can easily turn into a nice story line for you with a fair amount of room to play. Other craftsmen in the city will be reluctant to work for the party as the string of deaths becomes more publicized - at least until the mystery is solved.

[serleran]

You could easily introduce the party to the complications of a sudden windfall, as they start to become the target of nefarious sort... and some few allies, perhaps even those they would not suspect could be. Or, maybe, they'll be smart and start their own security / insurance firm and offer vanishing deductibles.

[Treebore]

You said they had a bunch of evil priests, likely a whole religion woth, whom they got the money from? Ones who have enough divination powers to find out who has their money? Not to mention they are in a big city, with probably more than one big thieves guild? Going to be pretty tough hanging on to all of that.

[Arduin]

Or I could have the owners of the loot discover these guys fencing stolen goods all over town, and get them in an intrigue where they die or earn the right to carry the cool weapons and armor.
Any suggestions for curing my gaming hang-over?

This is perfect as it is true. If the "loot" originated in the city, It doesn't belong to the PC's. Its rightful owners would have given them a reward for its return but, by fencing it, the PC's are guilty of felonies in most types of society...

[Omote]

Before the armor and weapons makers finish making them, perhaps the evil temple priests locate through magical means where the money trail has gone. The expert armorers and the weapon makers end up with burned out buildings, and are all dead or missing. Voila! New adventures!

~O

[Snoring Rock]

Mwahahahah.......I like it. I think just moving on and creating more story is the way to go.

[TheMetal1]

Yeah, I vote for those who want the NPC employers to get taken out one by one. A half-finished suit of Armor. A magical potion lab burned to the ground, with dead acolytes all around and the missing jewels of course. Perhaps the Bank where the Jewels were placed for safe keeping has been hit as well, without Thieves guild sanctioning. And now both the legal and illegal authorities are investigating, with the trail leading back to the PCs.

[alcyone]

Offer them real estate. It's tempting and gets expensive fast.

[Lurker]

Before the armor and weapons makers finish making them, perhaps the evil temple priests locate through magical means where the money trail has gone. The expert armorers and the weapon makers end up with burned out buildings, and are all dead or missing. Voila! New adventures!

~O

Yeah, I vote for those who want the NPC employers to get taken out one by one. A half-finished suit of Armor. A magical potion lab burned to the ground, with dead acolytes all around and the missing jewels of course. Perhaps the Bank where the Jewels were placed for safe keeping has been hit as well, without Thieves guild sanctioning. And now both the legal and illegal authorities are investigating, with the trail leading back to the PCs.

Rgr on that! It kills 2 birds with one stone, and more importantly, gives you more adventure hooks for game fodder.

[Lord Dynel]

I meant to reply to this a little while ago, but I got busy and forgot.

I'm going to take a slightly different approach from the other posters and say to just let them have the stuff.

What's done is done, and if you're not careful it's going to look (painfully) obvious that you messed up and now you're trying to fix your goof up. Some GM's don't like to be put into that position and I think if you're going to go that route, you may as well just come out and say, "hey guys, I goofed up and I need to take some treasure back." And the players might get a little bent out of shape due to them having a carrot dangled in front of them then pulled back.

Were it me, I'd let them have their fun times, buying up stuff here and there. If you can find some inconspicuous ways to strip them of cash, do it. Otherwise, just go light on treasure for a while. If they complain, just remind them of all the treasure they got from this haul and that not all loot is going to be as easy to come by as that hoard was. When you feel like they're at a place where you can be more liberal with the treasure, then you're good.

That's my two cents, anyway. If you need to separate them of their cash now, then there are many good options already presented by my fine, fellow posters. I wanted to offer an alternate view.

[Arduin]

I meant to reply to this a little while ago, but I got busy and forgot.

I'm going to take a slightly different approach from the other posters and say to just let them have the stuff.

I could see that except, in this case it would be illogical really. They just fenced a ton of jewels that were stolen from a temple in the same city. The clerics there would logically use divination to discover the thieves (PC's) running around in their own town. It would either bring the law down on them or, the clerics would hunt down the group themselves and intimidate the businesses that the PC's purchased from using stolen temple resources...

IF the scenario is as written, the PC's weren't thinking clearly and shouldn't be spared from the consequences of their short sightedness.

[Lord Dynel]

I meant to reply to this a little while ago, but I got busy and forgot.

I'm going to take a slightly different approach from the other posters and say to just let them have the stuff.

I could see that except, in this case it would be illogical really.

No, it wouldn't be illogical. It may not be practical, but it's not illogical. In fact, they already have the money. And they cashed them in. And, a lot of it is already spent. My solution was to just go with it, swallow the mistake, and go from there (and make treasure gain light for a while). More on this in a sec.

They just fenced a ton of jewels that were stolen from a temple in the same city. The clerics there would logically use divination to discover the thieves (PC's) running around in their own town. It would either bring the law down on them or, the clerics would hunt down the group themselves and intimidate the businesses that the PC's purchased from using stolen temple resources...

Now, my above statement assumes the temple doesn't go looking for them. But if you read Rock's post, the gems weren't actually stolen. They were given to the zombies by evil clerics, and the PC's took said zombies out. The logical course of action for Rock would be to have the evil clergy go after the PC's (and possibly the businesses where the PC's have spent, or are spending, the money). I would doubt the city would do much to aid an evil church, lawful government or not, unless the city's evil as well.

My suggestion was simply that Rock should take caution in how he recovers from his misstep. If it's too obvious, I could see his players wondering why they gave them the treasure only to take it away. Unless, of course, he comes out and tells the players that he made a mistake. Otherwise (and as I had stated in my previous post), I would see no lasting harm in letting them keep the money, fight off the clerics who are coming after it (which opens up a few adventure hooks), and be the richer for it. I say "lasting harm" because, sure, it'll tip the balance in the favor of the PC's for a little while...until the fancy new stuff they're buying isn't all that beneficial anymore.

IF the scenario is as written, the PC's weren't thinking clearly and shouldn't be spared from the consequences of their short sightedness.

I can't say with certainty, but it sounds like the PCs were acting like PCs normally act like - go adventuring, kill the baddies, take their stuff, and profit. No disrespect to Rock - and he even admits it - that it wasn't the PCs who were shortsighted.

[mbeacom]

@Lord Dynel,
I don't think Arduin meant the PCs were shortsighted for killing zombies and taking their stuff, but for going immediately topside, selling all the jewels, and hiring city merchants/smiths with the money, without giving thought to where the jewels came from, if such activity would draw unwanted attention, or who may be looking to get them back. Any time adventurers run around flush with cash in my games, they draw the attention of the local thieves guilds as well as chaotically aligned adventurers and grifters. Which, as I like to say makes poor decisions by the players just as fun as good ones.

[Lord Dynel]

@Lord Dynel,
I don't think Arduin meant the PCs were shortsighted for killing zombies and taking their stuff, but for going immediately topside, selling all the jewels, and hiring city merchants/smiths with the money, without giving thought to where the jewels came from, if such activity would draw unwanted attention, or who may be looking to get them back. Any time adventurers run around flush with cash in my games, they draw the attention of the local thieves guilds as well as chaotically aligned adventurers and grifters. Which, as I like to say makes poor decisions by the players just as fun as good ones.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that does make sense. Usually, I'd pick up on that...guess it slipped my thoughts.

So yes, I'll go along with the players being shortsighted. I'm still of the opinion that if Mr. Rock wants to relieve the PCs of their new found wealth that he should either tread very carefully (and inconspicuously) or come right out and admit his error.

[mbeacom]

@Lord Dynel,
I don't think Arduin meant the PCs were shortsighted for killing zombies and taking their stuff, but for going immediately topside, selling all the jewels, and hiring city merchants/smiths with the money, without giving thought to where the jewels came from, if such activity would draw unwanted attention, or who may be looking to get them back. Any time adventurers run around flush with cash in my games, they draw the attention of the local thieves guilds as well as chaotically aligned adventurers and grifters. Which, as I like to say makes poor decisions by the players just as fun as good ones.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that does make sense. Usually, I'd pick up on that...guess it slipped my thoughts.

So yes, I'll go along with the players being shortsighted. I'm still of the opinion that if Mr. Rock wants to relieve the PCs of their new found wealth that he should either tread very carefully (and inconspicuously) or come right out and admit his error.

I agree. My personal call would be to let them keep it. How bad can it be? I mean, worst case scenario (of letting them keep it), you can throw a bit tougher bad guys in their way, or one or two more in each group. Nobody would ever notice this and then they'd be thanking their lucky stars for the gear. But at the same time, I'm ok with players understanding the concept of "the gods giveth and the gods taketh away" in that, just like they got lucky finding a big pile of loot, they can get unlucky and find someone who wants to take it, even if that someone is a disenchanter peeling off a +1 here and there. Having said that, If I did choose to take something away, I'd almost certainly reward them in some other way so they don't feel bummed out. The game is about fun after all and as the DM, I feel that I have the ability and responsibility to help the players get what they want out of the game even if that means being a bit overpowered now and then.

[serleran]

Were the zombies truly destroyed? If not, their orders might make them come creeping out of that sewer in looks of the gems... and that could get messy, especially if they happen to be "zombies, propagating."

[Ancalagon]

This is precisely why they created the Rust Monster (M&T page 71) and the Disenchanter (Classic Monsters pg 38).

You beat me to this!

[Arduin]

@Lord Dynel,
I don't think Arduin meant the PCs were shortsighted for killing zombies and taking their stuff, but for going immediately topside, selling all the jewels, and hiring city merchants/smiths with the money, without giving thought to where the jewels came from, if such activity would draw unwanted attention, or who may be looking to get them back. Any time adventurers run around flush with cash in my games, they draw the attention of the local thieves guilds as well as chaotically aligned adventurers and grifters. Which, as I like to say makes poor decisions by the players just as fun as good ones.

Yes, correct. If all one had to do was rob & fence, without anyone tracking the activity backwards, it would be an illogical situation. They changed the jewels into coin somewhere locally...

[mbeacom]

@Lord Dynel,
I don't think Arduin meant the PCs were shortsighted for killing zombies and taking their stuff, but for going immediately topside, selling all the jewels, and hiring city merchants/smiths with the money, without giving thought to where the jewels came from, if such activity would draw unwanted attention, or who may be looking to get them back. Any time adventurers run around flush with cash in my games, they draw the attention of the local thieves guilds as well as chaotically aligned adventurers and grifters. Which, as I like to say makes poor decisions by the players just as fun as good ones.

Yes, correct. If all one had to do was rob & fence, without anyone tracking the activity backwards, it would be an illogical situation. They changed the jewels into coin somewhere locally...

And whomever they sold the jewels to, being a local jeweler, might very well have recognized them (perhaps he was the one who cut them originally, etc). And being fearful for what might happen, they may offer to return them and rat out the seller in hopes of gaining some status with the church that lost them, even if its evil.

[Lurker]

And whomever they sold the jewels to, being a local jeweler, might very well have recognized them (perhaps he was the one who cut them originally, etc). And being fearful for what might happen, they may offer to return them and rat out the seller in hopes of gaining some status with the church that lost them, even if its evil.

I didn't think of that ...

That is a great hook

[Arduin]

And whomever they sold the jewels to, being a local jeweler, might very well have recognized them (perhaps he was the one who cut them originally, etc). And being fearful for what might happen, they may offer to return them and rat out the seller in hopes of gaining some status with the church that lost them, even if its evil.

Correct. Jewelers in the same community would have a very good chance to be familiar with any notable cut gem stones in their area. The odds would be high that they would rat them out seeing that they belong to a local temple that has spell casters.

[Treebore]

And whomever they sold the jewels to, being a local jeweler, might very well have recognized them (perhaps he was the one who cut them originally, etc). And being fearful for what might happen, they may offer to return them and rat out the seller in hopes of gaining some status with the church that lost them, even if its evil.

Correct. Jewelers in the same community would have a very good chance to be familiar with any notable cut gem stones in their area. The odds would be high that they would rat them out seeing that they belong to a local temple that has spell casters.

Not only that, Craftsman have been putting their "makers mark" on their goods for many centuries, especially if they were part of a guild. This includes jewelry. Every ring, necklace, cuff link, etc.... will have a makers mark somewhere. Which would help trace it back to proper owners, and ultimately the maker himself, if still alive.

Only common types of crafted items tended to go unmarked, such as nails, horse shoes, etc...


Pottery often has a makers mark. Any time something is made en masse, with a number of workers, you will find some kind of makers mark. This is because they are paid per piece, so to make sure they were given money/credit for all their work, it is marked.

Higher end stuff, such as jewelry, weapons, armor, fine furniture, fine pottery, etc... were marked for purposes of reputation as well as identification of fakes versus forgeries, etc... Plus, just like today, a favored craftsman back then could command substantially more money than others could.

[Relaxo]

And whomever they sold the jewels to, being a local jeweler, might very well have recognized them (perhaps he was the one who cut them originally, etc). And being fearful for what might happen, they may offer to return them and rat out the seller in hopes of gaining some status with the church that lost them, even if its evil.

FTW!

Hey, Maker's Mark has a maker's mark! nyuk nyuk nyuk

[Lord Dynel]

The only issue I see with the "maker's mark" theory is...wouldn't that been covered already? I mean, wouldn't this issue have come up when they sold them originally? Retrofitting is going to lead to one of those, "why wasn't this brought before," questions by the players I would fear.

[serleran]

Usually, a maker's mark requires very close scrutiny, the kind that a lapidarian would do before forking over coin or using the gems in any kind of work. It is doubtful that a character would have been able to see it, much less identify it, unless they're awesome (or dwarfs.)

[Treebore]

Plus makers of high end items, such as jewelry, armor and weapons, they put a lot of hidden marks all over their work, that they then record in books/scrolls/whatever to help with future identification and authentication. Painters/Sculptors, etc... are also known for doing the same. Basically they did whatever thy could think of to make copying their work harder, and making the identification of fakes easier to identify.

This is actually an important job of a Guild, they keep these records when their guild members die. So are the go to source for authenticating work done by current and past members of their guild. They are also the go to source for thieves to rob so they can make better forgeries of highly valued artisans. The more you know about the makers "marks", especially their secret ones, the harder it is to ever identify a forgery.

Even with todays technology it is still very challenging to identify forgeries, which is a large part of why proving "provenance" is so importance.

[Arduin]

The only issue I see with the "maker's mark" theory is...wouldn't that been covered already? I mean, wouldn't this issue have come up when they sold them originally? Retrofitting is going to lead to one of those, "why wasn't this brought before," questions by the players I would fear.

Since the origin of the pieces may be foreign & very old, the marks may not have meant much to the people who bought them. It becomes important as soon as Temple guys start investigating and asking around. THEN, the brown stuff hits the fan.