1/2 elves on the 15/+3 / -3 rule

[nightstorm]

So if I decide to do the 15 base +3/-3 rule in the CKG, what about the 1/2 elf +2 attribute bonus? Does it stay or do you do something different?

[serleran]

If everyone has "half-Primes" on everything already, this ability is less cool but still powerful. Leave it as is, or reduce the bonus to a +1.

[nightstorm]

I was wondering if mechanically it is different, being too powerful.

[koralas]

So if I decide to do the 15 base +3/-3 rule in the CKG, what about the 1/2 elf +2 attribute bonus? Does it stay or do you do something different?

No it stays, the numbers are still correct. (Numbers below are die rolls required for an unadjusted SIEGE check, ie. CL0)

12/18 = 1/2 elf has two primes at 12, three non-prime at 18, and one non-prime at 16 (18 for non-prime with a +2 bonus to the die roll)

15 +3/-3 = 1/2 elf has two primes at 12 (15 with +3 on the die roll), and three non-primes at 18 (15 with -3 on the die roll), and one non-prime at 16 (15 with -3 [it is not a prime ability] then +2 [special bonus for human heritage], netting a -1 on the die roll)

So as you can see, the number required to be rolled on the d20 is the same regardless of the method used. It is just a matter of how you calculate them out.

[nightstorm]

hummmm that makes playing a half elf second only to a human (perhaps even better in ways.

prime char +3+2=5
another prime
and then a non prime that's -1 instead of -3 right?

[koralas]

hummmm that makes playing a half elf second only to a human (perhaps even better in ways.

prime char +3+2=5
another prime
and then a non prime that's -1 instead of -3 right?

Not sure what you mean by prime +3+2=5...

1/2 elf has

• 2 primes like any other character at +3
  3 secondary (non-prime) at -3
  1 secondary (non-prime) at -1

[nightstorm]

I meant that if one prime is charisma, then it's 3+2 (if more human than elf) for a +5 on all charisma checks.

[koralas]

I meant that if one prime is charisma, then it's 3+2 (if more human than elf) for a +5 on all charisma checks.

Oh, then in that case no, only one secondary (non-prime) attribute receives the +2 bonus to the die roll (which in the 15 +3/-3 system equates to a -1). You cannot select a prime attribute to gain the +2 bonus for the human heritage, it must be a secondary attribute.

The paragraph states, "Half-elf characters are allowed to chose one secondary attribute for which they gain a +2 bonus to all attribute checks." This can be confusing, making it sound like they get a flat +2 on all attribute checks regardless of the attribute, when really it pertains only to the selected secondary attribute. It could be better worded as follows.

"Half-elf characters are allowed to chose one secondary attribute to focus on, but not to the same level as a prime attribute. When making any checks for this attribute, they receive a +2 bonus to the die roll."

[nightstorm]

seems like we both got it wrong

EMPATHY: A half-elf’s uncanny ability to empathize with others is
reflected in a +2 bonus to all charisma checks.

This ability can be
combined with attribute check modification.

ATTRIBUTE CHECK MODIFICATION: The human lineage is reflected in
a greater versatility than their elven kin, but not quite as their human
relatives. Half-elven characters are allowed to choose one secondary
attribute for which they gain a +2 bonus to all attribute checks.

[koralas]

Ah, yes, wasn't thinking of Empathy, thanks for the point. Yes, in that case +5 total. Though I would rule that is on interaction checks, and not other charisma checks like those for a save vs. Death Magic. But that will be a call each CK would have to make with the way it is worded.

[serleran]

Empathy does not generally apply to saves. It is an interaction check modifier, if there were any such abilities in C&C -- the ones I can think of require the opponent to save, where the Empathy mod is not applied (though you could make it act as a penalty.)