True 20

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:05 am

I just got a couple of True 20 PDFs and was wondering if anyone had ever used the system. The way magic is handled really intrigues me. So any info would be great.

R-
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:21 am

If you go to the Necromancer boards and post the question to DnDChick she can tell you a lot. I've been eyeing their "True Sorcery" book for a while myself.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Thanks Tree.

R-
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:56 pm

I do not like the system. It does not make justice to a class system, nor to a skill-based system. It mixes both, and in the end seems to take the worst of both worlds.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:42 am

My only exposure to it has been my work through on Mutants and Masterminds 2E. Even though they are not identical (True 20 & how it is done in M&M) they are similiar enough that I can say I like it much better than d20 3E.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:21 am

I was not that impressed with the system. Bells and whistles are fine, but when they only make noise, its time to get the ear-stuffers.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:36 pm

I'm mainly interested in how the magic system was done.

R-
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:04 pm

serleran wrote:
I was not that impressed with the system. Bells and whistles are fine, but when they only make noise, its time to get the ear-stuffers.

Then I would say they met their goal then. Since all they wanted to do was make it "simple" compared to 3E. Which they did, largely through what would probably be called somantics. Or "bells and whistles".

Still, it plays better than 3E. However, I obviously didn't like it enough to choose it over C&C.

I haven't found anything as simple and versatile as C&C and its SIEGE mechanics.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:33 pm

I didn't say they didn't do what they set out to do... but, they also didn't do enough to make me think it much less than a slightly slimmer d20. They kept the majority of stuff from d20 that I find to be obtuse and "heavy" and called it "light." Things like "feats" and "skills" which are "bells and whistles" of "customization," add a totally unneccesary layer of complexity.

Anyway, that stated, the True Sorcery book is alright. I've never found a magic system I liked, per se, but have always cobbled together elements of various games, and expansions... like the alchemy stuff from The Arcanum, the Occult Castings from TORG's Orrosh and Aysle, Shadowrun's "spell design" and, ultimately, the "seed" concept from The Epic Level Handbook (though, admitted, its not that unique) to get the casting I like.

There are some ideas to be mined, but I would not buy the book for retail. Maybe 60% off.

JRR · Post by **JRR** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:17 am

I looked at True 20. Wanted to like it. But it ONLY uses a d20, which makes my 9 million dice useless. No thanks. I want to roll dice, damnit. Die 8s, 12s, 6s, 4s, 3s, percentile, even 5s and 16s! We wants to rolls them! They are mine! My own! My....preciouuusssss....

Ahem. Sorry, got carried away.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:30 am

Maybe you and Sen the Collector should get together and compare your "precious" dice piles. He is on the Necromancer boards, if you want to get in contact with another dice collector.

Ser,

I pretty much agree with your assessment. I probably have some differences of opinion, but they would be pretty much minor in relation to the major point.

JRR · Post by **JRR** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:35 pm

Treebore wrote:
Maybe you and Sen the Collector should get together and compare your "precious" dice piles. He is on the Necromancer boards, if you want to get in contact with another dice collector.

Heh, I really don't have that many dice, but my point is still the same. I like games with different dice. That's one reason I didn't like Gurps. Well, that and the one second combat round.
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You face 99 beserkers, 99 beserkers, 99 beserkers, and 99 beserkers.

Will your stalwart band choose to Fight, Advance, or Run?

adaen · Post by **adaen** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:36 pm

Yeah, I think I will be picking up the True Sorcery book....Vancian Magic has never really done it for me....

~AoB
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Jackal · Post by **Jackal** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:03 pm

I ran it with my gaming group for the better part of a year some time ago. My players had mixed emotions regarding the game and I, myself, didn't enjoy running it.

With the combination of minions and the way conviction and damage works the game pretty much sets you up to play the mini-boss/end-boss type of game where every encounter other than the "big ones" is window dressing and little else. You can, of course, change this but it's not as easy as it might sound (creatures need conviction, you have to rework the way 1st level humanoids function, etc).

The magic system is another bit I didn't like. At first it seemed great but it ended up creating a few problems. Spells like elemental blast become all the adept casts anyway so not having to memorize your spells doesn't usually end up generating different and creative spell use. The Adept's Handbook makes things worse as many spells break the mold and start bringing in durations (all core spells used maintenance instead) so you end up with 6th level wizards capable of summoning multiple demons and elementals in the same combat (with little chance of failure and no chance of reprisal built into the system).

I'm also not a fan of the damage system as it ends up causing more tracking than hit points ever did (fail your toughness save by more than 5 so you're wounded which gives you a -2 to all actions except toughness saves since you already get a cumulative -1 for all wounds you have, etc).

Not to sound too negative, I will say I really like the system for games other than fantasy. By removing the adept you get rid of many broken bits, the minion rules work much better in non-fantasy settings and the damage tracking also makes more sense (though it's still a pain to keep track of).

On the True Sorcery note, I do own it but I've never done more than skim through it so I'm not really sure about that one.

adaen · Post by **adaen** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:39 pm

That's good info. Thanks. The core True20 system both appeals to me and rubs me the wrong way. I have not run it as of yet, but may do so with my playtest group.

Best,

~AoB
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:33 pm

The biggest appeal True20 has with me right now is as a class building kit for anything new I want to do in C&C.

Plus, reading through the magic system, and seeing how similar it is to M&M super powers as to how they work, the magic would definitely have a very different feel to what I am used to in D&D. I think it would work really well for a more low powered magic setting.

So one of these days I will run that Excalibur Game I have been wanting to do using True 20 and a really nice Arthurian PDF I have for True 20.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:12 am

I have the system, read it over, but was not that impressed by it -- it took most everything I disliked about d20 and made them focal points. It is like a GURPS version of d20. Not for me, but I see why others might like it... it does have a toolkit sort of appeal.