Wizards Staff...Need help

[Valadil Ragelin]

Ok, so, I have a level 1 Wizard, and he wants a staff that has magical properties. In addition, I have a level 1 Cleric, who also wants a staff, with magical properties....

Do i buy these?
leave them as treasure finds in the dungeon?
or...do i have to have them custom made?

AND of course, i understand CK rule #1 -- just wing it...AND i understand that all three are possible options, BUT, i would like to be more "true to form" and original intent for these types of items.

thanks

[mbeacom]

There really is no right answer I think. IMO, this all depends on what your setting is like. Some settings might have hedge wizards selling cheap wands and staves on every street corner. In others, the idea of finding a magical staff might be a career spanning quest. You have to decide (or consider) what your setting is like to determine availability. In my setting, magical wands and staves are not available for sale. Anyone powerful enough to make them doesn't need more money and anyone lucky enough to find one would never sell it. That leaves adventuring and questing. In my games, players may find a magical staff in treasure hordes or might be given one by a very rich patron as part of a major quest objective.

[Treebore]

In my house rules I require a Staff or Wand in order for them to use what I call Arcane or Divine Blasts, which is my take on a similar power WOTC came up with in 4E D&D for spell casters to have something "magical" to do nearly every round if they really want to. I'll copy/paste that particular idea here in a minute, as well as link you to my house rules in case you find some other ideas in it that you like.

"Divine/Arcane blasts. These are a pure energy attack that any spell caster can use every other round as long as they do not cast any spells on the round in between. Yes, this means all day long. This is because that round is a recharge/gather the power round. This attack requires a "To hit" roll versus the targets AC, but the casters BtH for purposes of this attack is equal to their level and its modified by their DEX. Damage is 1d4 per level of the caster and requires a "item" as the component for this ability. It costs 20 GP per dice of damage. Typically a cleric uses their Holy Symbol and Arcane Casters most frequently make a wand.

As usual, I do allow a SIEGE check to cast this every round, it will be CON based, and failed checks will cost a temporary loss of one CON point to simulate the exhaustive nature of wasting the energy as well as gathering it so quickly. The CL will equal the amount of dice you want to do for damage, and the base TN will always be 12, since this is now a "Class Ability" for all spell casters.


Lost CON is regained at 1 point per hour of rest, or from a Lesser Restoration."

Link to my house rules:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12477

[Valadil Ragelin]

Mbeacom,

Thank you very much. that gives me some good insight. I kind of figured that because I could not find any specific callouts for this, that it was somewhat CK discretion.

Treebore,
Splendid!!! that would be awesome.

thank you both....


While you two are here, is there any C&C 'play by post' or online adventures that either of you are aware of?

[Omote]

Here's what I do for wizards (converted from Pathfinder and CKG more or less)

Experienced wizards will form an arcane bond with an object that is closely associated with his development as a practitioner of the arcane arts. These arcane bonded items enhance a wizard’s skill and can aid him with magic.

A wizard will begin his career at 1st level by selecting an object to which he will one day bond himself in magic. Once a wizard makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed. This object is automatically granted to a 1st level wizard upon character creation free of charge. Often, one of these items is given to an apprentice wizard very early into their tutelage. Objects that are subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always of expert craftsmanship and quality, but never made from special materials.

If the object is an amulet or a ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded in hand. With daily practice, meditation, and arcane rites, the object he selects at 1st level will finally bond itself to its master when the 3rd level of experience in the wizard class is achieved. At that time the bonded object provides the following benefits:

►+1 bonus to AC.

►The bonded object can be used once per day to cast a single 0-level or 1st level spell that the wizard has recorded in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. The spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard’s level.

►The wizard can confer up to 30 spell components to his wand in a ritual that takes 1 hour to cast. The wizard places his bonded object, and the number of spell components he wishes to merge with the object in a small brazier. The wizard speaks the simple incantation that only he knows, and sets the brazier alight in wizard’s flame. The components, regardless of material hardness or make, immolate into the flame. The smoke from the components is taken into the bonded object and becomes one with it.

The benefit of this ritual is that the wizard can store his components within his bonded object. When the wizard casts a spell the material component stored in the bonded object is consumed. The number of times the bonded object can be used as a focus for the wizard’s spells that require the stored components is equal to the amount of material components placed into the bonded object.

If the selected object is damaged or destroyed prior to becoming a 3rd level wizard, it must be replaced. The wizard must find his master, or another wizard of 3rd level of higher to complete a 1-week spiritual ritual that costs 300 gold pieces per level of the wizard to begin the bonding process to the original owner once again. Once 3rd level is attained and the object is fully bonded with the wizard, any damaged bonded object will magically repair itself the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the arcane bonded object is lost or destroyed once 3rd wizard is attained it can be replaced by the wizard himself in a 1-week spiritual ritual that costs 300 gold pieces per level of the wizard. A bonded object that is lost in this way, does not contain any material components that were stored within it prior to it becoming lost.

If the arcane bonded object’s owner dies, or the item is otherwise replaced, it reverts to being an ordinary expertly crafted item of the appropriate type.

~O

[Valadil Ragelin]

Tons of 'thank-you' to Omote. I certainly like what you did. It also looks very easily adaptable for a Cleric to do similar.

[Aramis]

Ok, so, I have a level 1 Wizard, and he wants a staff that has magical properties. In addition, I have a level 1 Cleric, who also wants a staff, with magical properties....

Do i buy these?
leave them as treasure finds in the dungeon?
or...do i have to have them custom made?

AND of course, i understand CK rule #1 -- just wing it...AND i understand that all three are possible options, BUT, i would like to be more "true to form" and original intent for these types of items.

thanks

Do you mean the players wish to make or buy these items? This issue ties more into what flavour of game you want. In 1st edition, magic item creation was difficult and generally came at the end of a character's career. Therefore, players had to dungeon delve and hope to find something good in the cold dark caverns.

3rd edition changed that by making magic item creation much easier. This in turn made the availability of "Ye Olde Magic Shoppes" much more prevalent.

Neither approach is wrong, it's just about what style you are going for. However, be on the look out for a "powering up" occuring if players can design what items their PCs will carry. Randomly found items in the 1st edition tradition tend to be of mixed use to the various challenges the party faces, but actually choosing 3 or 4 items from a magic catalog will make those low level characters much more powerful. So that encounter with 4 orcs will no longer be as challenging, which means you scale that up to 2 ogres, which means the players go back to Ye Olde Magic Shoppe to really load up to take on those ogres, etc.

[Buttmonkey]

I give 1st level wizards a defective wand of magic missiles at character creation. The wand can only hold 2 charges (hence, its defective nature). It gives the wizard a couple extra spells to keep the player engaged early on, but doesn't throw a lot of power the wizard's way. As the wizard gains experience levels, the wand will eventually die out. I'm not a fan of giving clerics a divine blast like Tree suggests. They're perfectly effective melee fighters with nice weapons and armor. If a cleric is bored at low level, she can jump in and start bashing with her mace. Of course, YMMV. While there is only one true way to correctly have fun (my way, durr), there are no fun police out there who will arrest you for doing things your own way.

[Valadil Ragelin]

Awesome advice. I appreciate everyones input.

[mordrene]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

[Buttmonkey]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

Eek! A magic missile wand with 20 charges is a massive treasure for a 1st level wizard, assuming magic missile is in her spell book. She can recharge that monster on her own and do a LOT of damage. I'd be really careful about unleashing something like that on your game. You may find the wizard running amok while the other PCs take a bit of a back seat.

[Treebore]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

Eek! A magic missile wand with 20 charges is a massive treasure for a 1st level wizard, assuming magic missile is in her spell book. She can recharge that monster on her own and do a LOT of damage. I'd be really careful about unleashing something like that on your game. You may find the wizard running amok while the other PCs take a bit of a back seat.

Meh. They can only run amok until they get killed. Magic missile is a pretty weak spell in the "BIG PICTURE". Its far less destructive than say, Fireball. If they focus on 1 target they might, maybe, kill 1 target, and even if your like me and have all magic items be at least 9th level, that is still 2, maybe 3 kills, at best, at 1st to 3rd, maybe 4th level. Far less deadly than the fighter types usually do. I find Sleep with its 2 to 8 HD far more powerful than Magic Missile.

So I'd be far, far more concerned over a Wand of Sleep than I ever am about a Wand of Magic Missiles.

[Lord Dynel]

Greetings, Valadil!

Something I've toyed with was "investing" spells into a staff or wand. I've mulled this over in my head for quite a while, and it's still not a complete thought, but I'll throw it out there, none the less.

Wizards (and perhaps illusionists) may sacrifice some of their daily allotment of spells (spells they can cast) and imbue a staff or wand with the power to cast that spell, 3 times per day. The imbued item can hold a spell, or spells, of levels equal to the Wizard's Intelligence modifier, -1. So...

Int 9-12: no spell levels can be imbued into the item
Int 13-15: 1 spell level.
Int 16-17: 2 spell levels.
Int 18-19: 3 spell levels.
etc...
* Note, a spell always functions at the lowest level of efficiency. So a fireball stored in a staff would deal 5d6 damage.

0-level spells cost 1/2 a spell level. So a wizard with an intelligence of 14 could store two 0-level spells or one 1st-level spell. With an intelligence of 16, the wizard could store both the two 0-level and a 1st-level spell, all usable three times per day. You cannot imbue spells which you, yourself, cannot cast and you cannot use an imbued item from another caster.

Spells imbued into a staff are removed from the wizards daily allotment of spells he or she can cast.
______________________________________

Anyway, that's what I've got so far. I think it's workable, but I haven't honed it yet.

[Buttmonkey]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

Eek! A magic missile wand with 20 charges is a massive treasure for a 1st level wizard, assuming magic missile is in her spell book. She can recharge that monster on her own and do a LOT of damage. I'd be really careful about unleashing something like that on your game. You may find the wizard running amok while the other PCs take a bit of a back seat.

Meh. They can only run amok until they get killed. Magic missile is a pretty weak spell in the "BIG PICTURE". Its far less destructive than say, Fireball. If they focus on 1 target they might, maybe, kill 1 target, and even if your like me and have all magic items be at least 9th level, that is still 2, maybe 3 kills, at best, at 1st to 3rd, maybe 4th level. Far less deadly than the fighter types usually do. I find Sleep with its 2 to 8 HD far more powerful than Magic Missile.

So I'd be far, far more concerned over a Wand of Sleep than I ever am about a Wand of Magic Missiles.

You're right about the lower damage compared to a fireball, but getting 20 automatic hits at range is a big weapon at 1st level. A 1st level wizard with intelligence 13 or higher could get that puppy recharged to 20 charges in a week. And then possibly dump more charges into it (I don't have my M&T in front of me, but I believe wands default to a maximum capacity of 50 charges). Compare that to a 1st level rogue contemplating firing into melee versus holding a torch or trying to sneak around for a back attack. That rogue would love to have an automatic hit on thrown daggers instead of risking hitting a party member every time. Suddenly the wizard is a hell of a lot more competent in combat than the rogue with a near-endless arsenal of damage-dealing spells. Another way to look at it is how valuable would a treasure hoard containing 20 scrolls of magic missile be worth. A lot of 1st level parties would be drooling helplessly at the thought of that kind of scroll haul. The wand is worth way more than 20 scrolls since it is rechargeable.

[Treebore]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

Eek! A magic missile wand with 20 charges is a massive treasure for a 1st level wizard, assuming magic missile is in her spell book. She can recharge that monster on her own and do a LOT of damage. I'd be really careful about unleashing something like that on your game. You may find the wizard running amok while the other PCs take a bit of a back seat.

Meh. They can only run amok until they get killed. Magic missile is a pretty weak spell in the "BIG PICTURE". Its far less destructive than say, Fireball. If they focus on 1 target they might, maybe, kill 1 target, and even if your like me and have all magic items be at least 9th level, that is still 2, maybe 3 kills, at best, at 1st to 3rd, maybe 4th level. Far less deadly than the fighter types usually do. I find Sleep with its 2 to 8 HD far more powerful than Magic Missile.

So I'd be far, far more concerned over a Wand of Sleep than I ever am about a Wand of Magic Missiles.

You're right about the lower damage compared to a fireball, but getting 20 automatic hits at range is a big weapon at 1st level. A 1st level wizard with intelligence 13 or higher could get that puppy recharged to 20 charges in a week. And then possibly dump more charges into it (I don't have my M&T in front of me, but I believe wands default to a maximum capacity of 50 charges). Compare that to a 1st level rogue contemplating firing into melee versus holding a torch or trying to sneak around for a back attack. That rogue would love to have an automatic hit on thrown daggers instead of risking hitting a party member every time. Suddenly the wizard is a hell of a lot more competent in combat than the rogue with a near-endless arsenal of damage-dealing spells. Another way to look at it is how valuable would a treasure hoard containing 20 scrolls of magic missile be worth. A lot of 1st level parties would be drooling helplessly at the thought of that kind of scroll haul. The wand is worth way more than 20 scrolls since it is rechargeable.

I see part of your problem. By the book you can only recharge one spell per day.

[Buttmonkey]

I see part of your problem. By the book you can only recharge one spell per day.

Ah, that is a big factor.

[Dracyian]

My two cents. Whatever you decide, try your best to say yes to the players. it makes your job easier when they buy in to that its their game and we are playing with them. If they want wands, then give them what Tree said or something like it. maybe a cure light wand and a magic missile wand with 20 charges. whatever you decide good luck and have fun.

Eek! A magic missile wand with 20 charges is a massive treasure for a 1st level wizard, assuming magic missile is in her spell book. She can recharge that monster on her own and do a LOT of damage. I'd be really careful about unleashing something like that on your game. You may find the wizard running amok while the other PCs take a bit of a back seat.

Meh. They can only run amok until they get killed. Magic missile is a pretty weak spell in the "BIG PICTURE". Its far less destructive than say, Fireball. If they focus on 1 target they might, maybe, kill 1 target, and even if your like me and have all magic items be at least 9th level, that is still 2, maybe 3 kills, at best, at 1st to 3rd, maybe 4th level. Far less deadly than the fighter types usually do. I find Sleep with its 2 to 8 HD far more powerful than Magic Missile.

So I'd be far, far more concerned over a Wand of Sleep than I ever am about a Wand of Magic Missiles.

I have watched Color spray be just as broken at lower levels for the illusionist. If I remember right it runs on amonut of creatures affecting lower hd first and their hd decides what the spells affect is. At early stages its a scary effective spell

[serleran]

I've been toying with an idea. The effects of a wand are depending on the construction of the wand, enhancing what the wizard may already do. For example, a wand made from the keratin of a phoenix talon adds a +2 caster level to all fire and healing effects, making it a useful item for a cleric or (especially) druids. It may be used in the casting of other spells, of course, but will tend to have reduced efficacy with opposite elements -- so, for example, using it to hurl a water-based spell will reduce the caster level by 2.

Not sure if, or how, I want to use it but it is another take to make wands more interesting (perhaps) without having them be "specific."

[Dracyian]

I've been toying with an idea. The effects of a wand are depending on the construction of the wand, enhancing what the wizard may already do. For example, a wand made from the keratin of a phoenix talon adds a +2 caster level to all fire and healing effects, making it a useful item for a cleric or (especially) druids. It may be used in the casting of other spells, of course, but will tend to have reduced efficacy with opposite elements -- so, for example, using it to hurl a water-based spell will reduce the caster level by 2.

Not sure if, or how, I want to use it but it is another take to make wands more interesting (perhaps) without having them be "specific."

So more of a focus item then?

[serleran]

That is a way to view it, yes.