Rouges and Studded Leather, a quick poll

[Lobo316]

So, who all has house rules that rouges/assassins can wear studded leather? It's something I'm toying with. Not sure if that should apply to both classes, or just rogues (or even if there is a reason to house rule it).

Does anyone have any of the older, AD&D books around or 2e books, that can look and see if the Thief or Assassin from back then could wear studded leather?

[Dracyian]

I don't see any reason why rogues or assassins can't wear studded leather

[Treebore]

Technically they (Rogues) can wear any of the armors. The list shows what they wear without penalty. Yes, I allow Studded Leather without penalty.

[kreider204]

1st ed PHB just says "leather." Back in the day, I think we interpreted that to include studded leather.

[Rigon]

I allow studded leather for both rogues and assassins. Plus I allow chain shirt for assassins.

R-

[Lobo316]

Cool, glad to see I'm not alone in this. Hey Rigon, I'm guessing you allow the assassin to wear chain shirts without penalty to thier skills or abilities?

[Aramis]

Looks like yes.

[Lobo316]

Looks like yes.

LOVE IT!!!!!

I have not read Thieves world in FOREVER!

[Rigon]

Cool, glad to see I'm not alone in this. Hey Rigon, I'm guessing you allow the assassin to wear chain shirts without penalty to thier skills or abilities?

Yep.

R-

[Lurker]

Looks like yes.

LOVE IT!!!!!

I have not read Thieves world in FOREVER!

Rgr that, it has been a LONG TIME. I'll have to hunt up a copy and relive the good ole days!

For the armor, yes, leather and studded leather are open in my world. Also, my world is a little lower magic/technology, so there is no armor more advanced than 'coat of plates' & a lot of the people only have studded leather, so seeing someone in it is not a dead give away that they are a thief or assassin.

[zombiehands]

Doesn't armor heavier than +2 just apply a penalty of Armor Bonus (AB)-2?

[Treebore]

Doesn't armor heavier than +2 just apply a penalty of Armor Bonus (AB)-2?

Something like that. So if they were to wear Full Plate they would have a -6 to most, if not all, of their checks. I'd have to reread the book to be accurate.

[Sir Ironside]

I allow any kind of armour, specifically because if the run across a "Plate mail of silence, magic armour." If they don't have something like that and decide to wear armour, that goes beyond what was intended, they get pluses for the magic armour depending on the situation.

It is the noise factor that I take into consideration. It is hard to back stab someone if you sound like a tank.

Familiarity is a consideration. Wearing leather armour is nothing like wearing plate, scaled, shield, etc. armour. Nor is it easy to adopt the weapons that is used most effectively with wearing armour.

So, taking into account the noise, the ability to become familiar and hindrance/encumbrance of the Thief/Assassin to effectively take full advantage of the class abilities makes it almost worthless.

Using the example above, about plate armour, it does have the ability of silence but it doesn't mean that the rest of the concern's go way. It is not light, nor easy to move around in but can take away weapons most used by fighters in armour and are allowed to use his knives.

I have no problem with them wearing studded leather.

[serleran]

Of course a rogue can wear studded leather. They can wear any armor. Whether they take a penalty is another matter. I tend to penalize full-body actions, like climb or move silently. Metal gauntlets would impact hand-only actions like picking locks or pockets.

[Dracyian]

I'm a little newer and a bit younger, but can anyone explain to me why an assassin or a theif would tattoo a star on their forehead ?

[serleran]

I don't believe that one is a rogue or assassin but a "mage of the blue star" (and probably Lythande.) The setting is called Thieves' World but it does not imply all inhabitants are thieves...

[Dracyian]

I don't believe that one is a rogue or assassin but a "mage of the blue star" (and probably Lythande.) The setting is called Thieves' World but it does not imply all inhabitants are thieves...

ahh ok

[Lurker]

I don't believe that one is a rogue or assassin but a "mage of the blue star" (and probably Lythande.) The setting is called Thieves' World but it does not imply all inhabitants are thieves...

I can't remember if he (or was it she ... it HAS been a long time) was a mage ...

Dracyian, if you haven't read thieves'' world, it is a great series of books that are short stories about a city. All kinds of characters from a street beggar/story teller, to a master thief, to the master of the city guard, etc etc etc. Fair warning though, it is a lot more gritty and dark than the average fantasy world.

[Dracyian]

I don't believe that one is a rogue or assassin but a "mage of the blue star" (and probably Lythande.) The setting is called Thieves' World but it does not imply all inhabitants are thieves...

I can't remember if he (or was it she ... it HAS been a long time) was a mage ...

Dracyian, if you haven't read thieves'' world, it is a great series of books that are short stories about a city. All kinds of characters from a street beggar/story teller, to a master thief, to the master of the city guard, etc etc etc. Fair warning though, it is a lot more gritty and dark than the average fantasy world.

I have been rereading David Eddings Elenium and Tamuli of late mostly because I was looking for a specific quote, back story behind the quote for all you who haven't picked up these fantastic lighter reads. The main character is a knight of a formal church military branch and the hereditary champion to the queen on a mission to stop the bad guy from killing his queen to get money to become essentially the pope. The leader of his branch meets with the three other Preceptors to talk and they decide it’s a very good opportunity to make a show of unity so they send Sparhawk (our knight in shiny black formal plate armor) a champion from each of the three other branches. Hailing from the North province of Thalesia is Sir Ulath, the only one of the four champions of the orders who does not have formal plate armor but rather wears a chain shirt. So Sir Sparhawk being curious asks him and the following conversation happens:

“Do you actually hunt Trolls?” asked Sparhawk

“Sometimes, Every so often a Troll goes crazy. If he comes down into the valleys where Elenes live and starts killing cows-or people- we have to hunt him down” answered Ulath.”

“I’ve heard that they’re failry large.”

“Yes. Fairly.”

“Isn’t it a bit dangerous to fight one with only chain mail armor?”

“It’s not too bad, really. They only use clubs. A man might get his ribs broken sometimes but that about all.”

“Wouldn’t full armor be an advantage?”

“Not if you have to cross any rivers-and we have a lot of rivers in Thalesia. A man can peel off a mail shirt even if he’s sitting on the bottom of a river. It might be a little hard to hold your breath long enough to get rid of a full suit of armor though.”

“That makes sense.”

“We thought so ourselves. We had a preceptor a while back who thought that we should wear full armor like the other orders-for the sake of appearances. We threw one of our brothers dressed in a mail shirt into the harbor at Emsat. He got out of his shirt and came to the surface in about a minute. The preceptor was wearing full armor when we threw him in, he didn’t come back up. Maybe he found something more interesting to do down there.”

"You drowned your preceptor?”

“No, his armor drowned him.”

Anyways back on course, I have been in the mood for a gritty dungeon crawl nasty spend half your time half dead adventure and this isn't quite that but overall its fairly close not so much of that super powered hero stuff, Just extraordinary men placed in crap circumstances making the best out of what they got and trying to win against unsurmounting odds

[Treebore]

I love David Eddings stories. Silk is still my all time fav.

[Dracyian]

I was thinking about that quote when the debate concerning plate armor erupted a while back on the boards, and I think its perfectly legitimate reason to not wear plate armor, lest you find something shiny and interesting at the bottom of a harbor

[serleran]

I don't believe that one is a rogue or assassin but a "mage of the blue star" (and probably Lythande.) The setting is called Thieves' World but it does not imply all inhabitants are thieves...

I can't remember if he (or was it she ... it HAS been a long time) was a mage ...

Dracyian, if you haven't read thieves'' world, it is a great series of books that are short stories about a city. All kinds of characters from a street beggar/story teller, to a master thief, to the master of the city guard, etc etc etc. Fair warning though, it is a lot more gritty and dark than the average fantasy world.

Lythande is both, neither, and either male/female. More shapeshifter it seems, but I guess it depends on which and how many of the stories one reads. I seem to recall "it" changing throughout the first three, collected into the Sanctuary anthology.

Oh, and Dracyian... there have been at least two iterations of the setting for RPG heads. Chaosium (and FASA) did work for it and relatively recently Green Ronin did for the d20 "engine." I prefer the older stuff, myself, but I tend to be old.

[Lurker]

I have been rereading David Eddings Elenium and Tamuli of late mostly because I was looking for a specific quote, back story behind the quote for all you who haven't picked up these fantastic lighter reads. The main character is a knight of a formal church military branch and the hereditary champion to the queen on a mission to stop the bad guy from killing his queen to get money to become essentially the pope. The leader of his branch meets with the three other Preceptors to talk and they decide it’s a very good opportunity to make a show of unity so they send Sparhawk (our knight in shiny black formal plate armor) a champion from each of the three other branches. Hailing from the North province of Thalesia is Sir Ulath, the only one of the four champions of the orders who does not have formal plate armor but rather wears a chain shirt. So Sir Sparhawk being curious asks him and the following conversation happens:

“Do you actually hunt Trolls?” asked Sparhawk

“Sometimes, Every so often a Troll goes crazy. If he comes down into the valleys where Elenes live and starts killing cows-or people- we have to hunt him down” answered Ulath.”

“I’ve heard that they’re failry large.”

“Yes. Fairly.”

“Isn’t it a bit dangerous to fight one with only chain mail armor?”

“It’s not too bad, really. They only use clubs. A man might get his ribs broken sometimes but that about all.”

“Wouldn’t full armor be an advantage?”

“Not if you have to cross any rivers-and we have a lot of rivers in Thalesia. A man can peel off a mail shirt even if he’s sitting on the bottom of a river. It might be a little hard to hold your breath long enough to get rid of a full suit of armor though.”

“That makes sense.”

“We thought so ourselves. We had a preceptor a while back who thought that we should wear full armor like the other orders-for the sake of appearances. We threw one of our brothers dressed in a mail shirt into the harbor at Emsat. He got out of his shirt and came to the surface in about a minute. The preceptor was wearing full armor when we threw him in, he didn’t come back up. Maybe he found something more interesting to do down there.”

"You drowned your preceptor?”

“No, his armor drowned him.”

Anyways back on course, I have been in the mood for a gritty dungeon crawl nasty spend half your time half dead adventure and this isn't quite that but overall its fairly close not so much of that super powered hero stuff, Just extraordinary men placed in crap circumstances making the best out of what they got and trying to win against unsurmounting odds

I remember that one. I actually used that reasoning back in the day for one of my characters.

I also loved conversation they had about using an axe vs a sword, and then the way the party figured out how one knight kept getting out cooking for the party.

Oh yeah, when the good and bad knight were fighting and they would give each other a break to catch their breath. It was a great example of a bad but honorable foe. I made an NPC like that, then in the fight the PC decided to attack him despite being given quarter. Boy, from then on, the gods were unhappy with the party, every foe never gave quarter and were much more dirty than they had been before.

[Dracyian]

They are nice easier reads, not like picking up a terry brooks novel, but the man was very excellent with his story work.

[quote="serleranLythande is both, neither, and either male/female. More shapeshifter it seems, but I guess it depends on which and how many of the stories one reads. I seem to recall "it" changing throughout the first three, collected into the Sanctuary anthology.

Oh, and Dracyian... there have been at least two iterations of the setting for RPG heads. Chaosium (and FASA) did work for it and relatively recently Green Ronin did for the d20 "engine." I prefer the older stuff, myself, but I tend to be old.[/quote]

Ok I Will have to look into them when I find some more cash or free time