Detail of Cities, Towns, Villages and Hamlets

[Snoring Rock]

Do your players explore civilization, see the shops, role play the buying and selling? Do they see the city as part of the adventure? Or do they see the town as Weapon Hut and Armors are Us? I feel like that a lot of the time. Villages are an open stall for quickly selling items for more gold than all of the villagers possess collectively. It is a drive-through for healing potions, willing clerics who heal and a place to quickly level up and we are on our way.

So why map out a village? Why detail its politics? Why bother fleshing out those NPC's?

I suppose I need to make it a bit more difficult to do that. I think it comes from the Pathfinder mentality. I own a lot of the adventure paths and while the maps are stunning, they have no detail at all. Really try to nail down locations on one. Very little detail is given or space provided for adding it. Town is a plug-in charging station. It is event-based role play. I am old school where the game is location-based role play.

Anyone else see this and how do you change it, or do you just go with it?

[FXR1979]

Plenty of things can happen in cities: rival merchant groups might want to use the PCs as tools, an evil cult might try to seize power by corrupting high officials, a mysterious disease could hit the city, etc. Even in small hamlets, the blacksmith might be a spy for bandits that lurk in the forest.

If your campaign doesn't feature city adventures, it's no surprise your players treat cities as only pit stops.

I don't bother mapping a city unless it is necessary. Most of the time, it really isn't. I also don't bother roleplaying every single purchase, as it becomes tedious and useless.

[Arduin]

Do your players explore civilization, see the shops, role play the buying and selling? Do they see the city as part of the adventure? Or do they see the town as Weapon Hut and Armors are Us?

Since civilization is where people and thus, information is, they spend a lot of time there. Most towns lack ANY good weapons & armor. Just like IRL.

[Omote]

So why map out a village? Why detail its politics? Why bother fleshing out those NPC's?

Verisimilitude. Immersion. Role-play. Better memories.

All of these things are why I take the time to detail up hamlets, towns, cities, etc. as needed in my campaigns. If civilization becomes a generic cookie-cutter experience, the players are not going to remember the details. If the settlement is interesting, or is at least dotted with a few colorful bits (NPCs, locations, politics, etc.) you are bound to have a better session and players who are more "plugged-in" to your game. Back in the day, I used to sit down and spend hours as a GM working the details of the town prior to a session. Now, I just sit back and generate a few notes on the NPCs, people, places, politics, etc. I write that all down on my graph paper. When the PCs enter the town, I tend to let my notes guide me instead of railroading the game. With these notes, you can let the story of the PCs in the settlement grow organically. You can still have location based adventures within the town, and perhaps those specific locations have a few more details notes about them.

When PCs are hopping from settlement-to-settlement, and as GM you didn't have any time to generate some notes about these places, simply come up with a basic detail about the town that makes it different. For example, as GM you didn't have any idea that the PCs were going to get sidetracked to town X during the session. You've never really thought much about town X, and realize that you have to read up on it, but don't want to do that during the session. Come up with a simple, perhaps unique characteristic about the town to make it different from others so that the PCs remember it. Say, "as the PCs enter the walls of the settlement, they notice that upon the walls are spikes. In some places these spikes may have the heads of criminals, but here, on these spikes there are impaled blackbirds."

This is a descriptive that doesn't have to have any plot around it whatsoever. And, it's deep enough to create a story around at a later time if you want to. From there, go into the site-based adventure within town.

~O

[alcyone]

Anyone else see this and how do you change it, or do you just go with it?

I don't add much detail until it's needed. I run a campaign right now in a sprawling desert city called Xylh, and the players are always astounded at what they find in it, but the secret is that detail doesn't exist until they interact with it. I diligently note locations and people as I invent them. I know the basics of the economic, military and government situation, but again, no detail until it's needed.

I am curious, what is an example of a product that gets it wrong, and what gets it right? Stuff like Bluffside and Town of Kalas has been coming out lately, are you saying you want that level of detail in 16-32 page modules?

[Treebore]

I like such products. The old TLG D20 product, forgetting the exact title, but has the word Settlements in it, is about perfect for what I like to have done for me. NPC's are the hardest for me, because I soon do them the same, because I run out of ideas. So I really like products that give me a unique personality for the NPC's once they get used. There are also a lot of NPC write ups on Lythia.com that are free. While written for Harn, personalities are personalities, and I got a few dozen from there alone. Plus they have a nice number of manors and villages nicely done up for free as well. I've easily bought a couple of dozen products over the years that detail out cities, towns and villages. Most recently being Bluffside and Kalas, but my first being the map books done for Harn way back in the day.

[Snoring Rock]

Yes, Harn is full of realistic small town goodness. I am still trying to figure out how to have a campaign in the world. The detail and personalities are great. The hard part is getting fantasy mixed in nicely.

I am running a Wilderlands game now and the players are near a little village of halflings. I love detailing these places but sometimes feel lie I waste time since the players do not seem to notice. I like feeling that I can cover anything on the fly since I have it all together on paper or in my head. Actually creating it helps me have it at the ready.

[Treebore]

I find forcing them to actually go out and buy new supplies helps them interact with NPC's. So does actually having them role play out paying for their Inn for the night, as well as buying any food or drinks. Then you have those NPC's mention any other NPC's of note, and eventually they will start interacting. Just realize this will open things up to more time spent doing resource management, but if you want them to interact with the world, thats how you do it. I've even had players end up investing in bakery's, etc... so it can be done, and in ways that adds to the fun.

[Snoring Rock]

Anyone else see this and how do you change it, or do you just go with it?

I don't add much detail until it's needed. I run a campaign right now in a sprawling desert city called Xylh, and the players are always astounded at what they find in it, but the secret is that detail doesn't exist until they interact with it. I diligently note locations and people as I invent them. I know the basics of the economic, military and government situation, but again, no detail until it's needed.

I am curious, what is an example of a product that gets it wrong, and what gets it right? Stuff like Bluffside and Town of Kalas has been coming out lately, are you saying you want that level of detail in 16-32 page modules?

For example; the Pathfinder adventure paths have snibbits of city information, but no actual detail. Mind you, they are modules, not city supplements, but if you have an adventure set in Sandpoint (small town) I think you should detail the village more than was done. If not in the module, then in a supplement somewhere.

The towns and cities you mention are good. I think the fat daddy whopper best of them all is City State by Judges Guild. Even better is the Necromancer Games version. I like the location-based adventures and supplements. I feel like event-based material is leading the adventurers by the nose. Not fun in my old-school way of seeing things.

[Treebore]

My Monday group just returned to the CSIO last session. What are they doing? Going to the Temples of Thoth and Odin as well as one of the pre eminent Arch mages of the CS, the Green Mage. Who are they interacting with? NPC's.

[Snoring Rock]

Dude, you got to love CSIO.

[Peter]

I like such products. The old TLG D20 product, forgetting the exact title, but has the word Settlements in it, is about perfect for what I like to have done for me.

Cities and Settlements

[Treebore]

I like such products. The old TLG D20 product, forgetting the exact title, but has the word Settlements in it, is about perfect for what I like to have done for me.

Cities and Settlements

Yep, thats it. Typical rough layout done by TLG at the time, but I really like the content.

[seskis281]

Towns and cities are very important in my campaigns, both integral in campaign arcs and also for side quests and allowing a bit of freedom in party and individual PC impulses. I use pre-existing that I build on (Botkingburg most famously, I used the 2e Fate of Istus map of Rauxes and turned it into Ivangorod), often towns and cities of my own design.... there is a joke amongst my group that we get "stuck" in town sometimes and a whole game night might pass without making it to an adventuring local... we'll roleplay some things for purchases, then sometimes just "you go back to your usual place" once established. I like flavor and detail... right now I am using the Beregost and sword coast maps from Baldurs Gate one computer game and some of the same names and locales for our current FR campaign... (Breakdaddy they haven't gone to see Thalyntyr or his top apprentice Xan yet ).