C&C Whitebox

[Julian Grimm]

I have been thinking about reviving my old Greenhill Project idea and going forward with something releasable. The issue is that as envisioned, Greenhill would be made more for an Original or Classic D&D type game. I have looked at a couple possibilities such as S&W, BFRPG or even making my own rules for the game. However, I do like C&C and was thinking about making it for the C&C Whitebox as I would like to stick with C&C for most, if not all of my writing.

For those that have it, I was wondering if the Whitebox is a good enough approximation of OD&D to be used for the project and if it is worth the price as I could easily make my own Whitebox version from the existing C&C rules.

As well I was wondering if anyone would be interested in something that is made strictly for the Whitebox version of C&C?

[Sir Ironside]

C&C White box is OK. I'd thrown my 2 cents behind Delving Deeper had I ever received the boxed set that I paid for.

That being said, it would be pretty cool having a product dedicated to the C&C White box.

[Buttmonkey]

Is the C&C Whitebox still in print?

[Julian Grimm]

They have a few left in stock and I am thinking of picking one up. I would like to see it stay in print especially with all of the '0e' clones out there. The big problem with C&CWB and any other 0e clone is that you eventually add enough in to make it more like AD&D/C&C than anything.

[Rigon]

I don't know if I'd be that interested in something strictly for the WB, especially since some of my favorite races and classes aren't in it, but if it was less rules related and more fluffy, I'd look into it. I love campaign settings.

R-

[Omote]

The C&C White Box is C&C, boiled down, pretty much as far as it can go. I love it. The only races available are human, dwarf, elf, halfling. The classes included are: cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard. The core of what the Siege Engine is, is fully included and described in the White Box. There are not a lot of spells, and the descriptions for them are as bare bones as you can possibly get. The treasures and monsters assortment are just fine. I'm not sure exactly how to compare OD&D to C&C WB. Both do what they intend, but as you well know, the C&C system is just different enough to make mid-higher level C&C pretty different game play experience than original D&D. My preference lies purely in the White Box, and am still running a campaign from it (although the longer we go, the more like regular C&C it becomes). White Box is nostalgic, and pretty bare. If that is what you like, and you really like the Siege Engine, well, the White Box will be a good buy for you.

~O

[mgtremaine]

C&C White box is OK. I'd thrown my 2 cents behind Delving Deeper had I ever received the boxed set that I paid for.

That being said, it would be pretty cool having a product dedicated to the C&C White box.

Not to thread jack but... PM or Email John about this. He really is trying to get everyone's out. It's just the records are a mess and he needs your help to fix his mess. I got my 2 DD boxes 6 months ago which I know has got to annoy those few who still have not received what they paid for.

End thread Jack.

-Mike

[Litzen Tallister]

The White Box (or as my brother and I have referred to it, the "beer and pretzels" version of C&C) reminds me a bit of the OD&D experience. As others have already said, it's the siege engine pared down about as much as possible. We ran a campaign that made use of it pretty exclusively once upon a time, with no major issues. As far as selling others on it, it's nice in that it offers an experience that is pretty much immediately playable to anyone with a passing familiarity with tabletop RPGs. Also, carrying it around won't result in dislocating a shoulder from a stack of 17 hardback books, 2 boxed sets, and a pound of dice.

[Sir Ironside]

[Not to thread jack but... PM or Email John about this. He really is trying to get everyone's out. It's just the records are a mess and he needs your help to fix his mess. I got my 2 DD boxes 6 months ago which I know has got to annoy those few who still have not received what they paid for.

End thread Jack.

Overtime I sent 4 e-mails, all to the same address. Was responded to once saying he'd get the game out to me right away.

I was well aware of his tragedy and difficulties and I was extremely patient because in the light of things getting DD just wasn't that important. I think I've been pretty fair about the whole thing.

That was so long ago, I've simply accepted the fact that DD is dead to me. With this and the screw-up with X-Plorers I'll never give one nickel to BHP ever again.

[Julian Grimm]

The White Box (or as my brother and I have referred to it, the "beer and pretzels" version of C&C) reminds me a bit of the OD&D experience. As others have already said, it's the siege engine pared down about as much as possible. We ran a campaign that made use of it pretty exclusively once upon a time, with no major issues. As far as selling others on it, it's nice in that it offers an experience that is pretty much immediately playable to anyone with a passing familiarity with tabletop RPGs. Also, carrying it around won't result in dislocating a shoulder from a stack of 17 hardback books, 2 boxed sets, and a pound of dice.

Which makes me want to see this stay in print. Perhaps rebranded as C&C Basic or C&C Classic Edition. When you consider the number of OD&D clones out there many would wonder if there would be a need for another but, if done correctly, Whitebox C&C could be TLG's own 'clone' but one that fits into a larger category.

That said, after some experimenting I could run Greenhill as full on C&C but a slightly altered version that would reflect Mentzer/RC D&D. I think what it boils down to now would be whether or not TLG intends to keep the Whitebox in print. If so then I would be more apt to get into writing the setting as strictly WB. If not, maybe something could be worked out on how to include WB style rules in Greenhill.

Of course, that all hinges on how I want to present the material. As I have not yet decided if this is something I would want to publish for profit or for free.

[Traveller]

There is enough in the White Box to be totally usable as a game, but I don't see TLG keeping the set in print in the boxed format. A saddle-stitched or perfect bound softcover with errata included would make a good introduction to the game.

[Omote]

I'm not sure we'll ever see a re-branded C&C White Box. If you recall, a few years ago there was mention of a basic C&C game that was in the pipeline, that had artwork and everything devoted to it. There was mostly positive feedback on these message boards about the project. Well, that never happened. Not sure that it was needed, but it may have been a neat little book or box set to see for the game. I think the C&C White Box fills the need for a basic game just fine, but that product doesn't come off as an intro into the C&C game. To the trained eye the White Box is throwback to the days of gaming yore.

It certainly could be re-edited, with a nice fancy layout and some new artwork to act as a Basic C&C game.

Many years ago, I started to write my own version of the C&C basic game. It always became something more than a pure basic intro into the core C&C game though. Maybe I should take another look at that project.

~O

[finarvyn]

I have mixed feelings about the C&C whitebox as a system. It really does have most of what I like in a game (the core races, the core classes) but C&C really isn't a hard game to figure out and doesn't have that many rules so I wonder if a "basic" C&C is really worthwhile. The C&C Player's Handbook is really a pretty thin book as it is, and supplement that with a few monsters from various sources and you're ready to play.

[Coleston the Cavalier]

[Not to thread jack but... PM or Email John about this. He really is trying to get everyone's out. It's just the records are a mess and he needs your help to fix his mess. I got my 2 DD boxes 6 months ago which I know has got to annoy those few who still have not received what they paid for.

End thread Jack.

Overtime I sent 4 e-mails, all to the same address. Was responded to once saying he'd get the game out to me right away.

I was well aware of his tragedy and difficulties and I was extremely patient because in the light of things getting DD just wasn't that important. I think I've been pretty fair about the whole thing.

That was so long ago, I've simply accepted the fact that DD is dead to me. With this and the screw-up with X-Plorers I'll never give one nickel to BHP ever again.

Sorry, Sir Ironside. Email with tracking number sent.

[Traveller]

I have mixed feelings about the C&C whitebox as a system. It really does have most of what I like in a game (the core races, the core classes) but C&C really isn't a hard game to figure out and doesn't have that many rules so I wonder if a "basic" C&C is really worthwhile. The C&C Player's Handbook is really a pretty thin book as it is, and supplement that with a few monsters from various sources and you're ready to play.

I thought the C&C Condensed pdf filled that bill? Isn't it essentially the white box but in letter-sized format?

I had started work on a revamp of the white box that updated the layout a bit and changed the artwork a bit. I stopped because it seemed a waste of time at the time, but this thread made me think about starting it up again.

[kreider204]

I thought the C&C Condensed pdf filled that bill? Isn't it essentially the white box but in letter-sized format?

I was thinking that too, except the white box also has a mini M&T, IIRC?

[Traveller]

It was my impression that the Condensed PDF included monsters, though not as many as in the white box. It also included The Rising Knight.

[kreider204]

You're probably right - I was thinking of the quick start rules, not the same thing.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the condensed rules on drivethrurpg anymore.

[mgtremaine]

I have mixed feelings about the C&C whitebox as a system. It really does have most of what I like in a game (the core races, the core classes) but C&C really isn't a hard game to figure out and doesn't have that many rules so I wonder if a "basic" C&C is really worthwhile. The C&C Player's Handbook is really a pretty thin book as it is, and supplement that with a few monsters from various sources and you're ready to play.

I thought the C&C Condensed pdf filled that bill? Isn't it essentially the white box but in letter-sized format?

I had started work on a revamp of the white box that updated the layout a bit and changed the artwork a bit. I stopped because it seemed a waste of time at the time, but this thread made me think about starting it up again.

I have soft spot for any 3 booklet format box set... The C&C Whitebox is pretty nice. The First book is only 36 pages which all things considered is amazing.

-Mike

[cuchulainkevin]

How about digest sized C&C Supplements that expand upon the class options and monsters? Since they're already done for the hardcovers, all you'd have to do is port them over. Not sure if it'd be worth the effort for the Trolls, but since they can do digest sized books (Towers of Adventure and the Crusaders Journal) maybe it would be feasible...

[Traveller]

A supplement has its own issues. One of the reasons AD&D came about was to clean up organizational issues in OD&D caused by releasing supplements. So I don't believe a supplement is going to happen, nor do I think it's a good idea.

[Julian Grimm]

If Whitebox was re-released it should stand as its own game with any 'supplements' coming from the community.

[Breakdaddy]

Man I love the white box! I have given serious consideration to adding the first or second iteration of the D&D NEXT playtest beta skill system since it's dead simple to tack on and would not affect much of the other rules at all. Still use SIEGE for saves and all that, but that skill system begs to be used for an old school style game like the C&C white box. I think the newer versions of the NEXT skill system have changed and may not be as simple to tack on but I havent followed the progression lately.

[Julian Grimm]

If I had the chance to put the Whitebox back in print I would only make a few changes to bring it up to the current C&C rules. Having put some thought into it here's what I would do:

Player's Handbook: As in the original it would only be four classes (Fighter, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard) and four races (Human, Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling). There would be a simple list of weapons and armor as well as a small spell list with brief descriptions. There would also be a stripped down version of the SIEGE Engine included.

Monsters & Treasure: This would contain the most basic and iconic monsters with the most basic treasures. Again, descriptions would be brief as would the stat blocks.

Castle Keeper's Guide: This would be the Underworld & Wilderness Adventures book of the set. Rules needed to run a C&C game and advice on setting up a C&C campaign. There would be little to no alternate rules and would contain only basic guidelines needed to play.

Adventure: Like the original set an adventure would be included especially made for the unique character of Whitebox C&C. It would be a short and sweet dungeon based adventure with suggestions to continue on.

Dice: Included would be a set of the new C&C dice.

Box: Yeah, it comes in a box and it's white. Imagine that.

Art: The art would be simple B&W with a retro style.

Support: Outside of a downloadable character sheet, there would be no official support for the game. While there could be a module or two; there should be no expansions to the rules to keep the feel of a Whitebox game. Fan support would be encouraged.

Anyway, that's just me having a thought exercise on the subject.