Critical Hits in C&C?

[dcfitch]

I am new to C&C and I only just recently got my PHB and M&T. I don't see any rules for critical hits in the PHB. Does the CKG have this option? I plan to get the CKG, but need to wait until next payday

[Arduin]

I am new to C&C and I only just recently got my PHB and M&T. I don't see any rules for critical hits in the PHB. Does the CKG have this option? I plan to get the CKG, but need to wait until next payday

Correct. C&C is deadly enough for PCs as is. CKG does have some options for Crit hits in Chapter 17 though.

[ThrorII]

We tend to play it as a natural 20 is an auto hit, regardless of AC, and max damage.

[dcfitch]

I did roll up my first character (Human Ranger, "Breddolan") and made him fight a single Orc. Breddolan lost two fights...quickly...before he finally squeaked out a victory (and he was only at 1 HP that time as well). I see how deadly the system can be. Reminds me of AD&D 1e at low levels.

[Arduin]

I did roll up my first character (Human Ranger, "Breddolan") and made him fight a single Orc. Breddolan lost two fights...quickly...before he finally squeaked out a victory (and he was only at 1 HP that time as well). I see how deadly the system can be. Reminds me of AD&D 1e at low levels.

Yes, that is an apt comparison especially if you play by RAW on Char Gen, etc.

[dcfitch]

I certainly don't mind a deadly system. Especially at low levels. It can make the game more exciting. I just like the "reward" and excitement of a natural 20 when it is given a special consequence. I look forward to buying and reading the CKG. I am thoroughly enjoying my introduction to C&C. It is beginning to challenge my beloved Dungeon Crawl Classics as my favorite rpg

[Lobo316]

I certainly don't mind a deadly system. Especially at low levels. It can make the game more exciting. I just like the "reward" and excitement of a natural 20 when it is given a special consequence. I look forward to buying and reading the CKG. I am thoroughly enjoying my introduction to C&C. It is beginning to challenge my beloved Dungeon Crawl Classics as my favorite rpg

When I was deciding upon a retro clone (that is, when I had enough of 4e masquerading as D&D ), C&C and DCC were the two I looked at. I elected C&C largely because DCC went a little "to old school" for me with the "races as classes" thing. Looked a bit more complicted than C&C as well, and I really wanted a rules-light game that put the power back where it belongs, behind the screen.

Welcome aboard, and for the record, this is what I do for criticals...

Critical Hits (natural 20): Max damage +1d4 and gain “advantage” on your next attack roll (roll 2D20 and select the higher result). This attack does not have to be against the same target.

Critical Fumbles (natural 1): You grant "advantage" to your opponent(s). Until your next initiative (enemies attacking you roll 2D20 and select the higher result). For ranged attacks, projectile may hit an ally, or some other mishap, bowstring snaps, etc. Saving throws and siege checks “under duress” automatically fail on a natural 1.

[KaiserKris]

Regular monsters get an autohit on a roll of 20.

Player characters and 'special' monsters get an autohit and a chance to roll a d10 for 'extra' stuff happening. The decision of what happens is totally arbitrary. Generally speaking, the higher the roll, the better. In most cases, a critical hit that is followed up by a roll of 10 (the '0') is an autokill for PC characters. Other things that can happen are things like an immediate 'cleave' attack against other people, smashing limbs, concussions, dismemberments, bonuses to attack and damage for the duration of the fight, etc.

If an enemy dies as a result of a critical hit, I let players describe how they did that. If a PC dies as a result of a critical hit, I let the players describe how they died.

Critical fumbles work a similar way, but bad things happen instead of good things.

[Omote]

We use critical hits as well. I also agree that C&C becomes deadly enough with monsters possibly causing MAX damage, or X2 damage like other games. You have to temper that IMO, or else you're getting into the realms of the assassin and rogue's backstab crit multipliers (and nobody wants to take that class ability away from them). Here's what we do:

Additional Combat Damage (Rolling a Natural 20)
Unless the Castle Keeper is using alternative rules, such as Weapon
Mastery, there is usually no benefit to rolling a 20 on the die for
melee/ranged attack rolls. Another option referenced below as Natural
20 is a common method many Castle Keeper’s use where a roll of a 20
on the die to hit in combat is always a hit regardless of the opponent’s
armor class. For the purposes of this Additional Combat Damage
option, the Natural 20 optional rule is used. See below for more detail
on the Natural 20 option.

Rolling a natural 20 on the to-hit roll in combat will not only
automatically strike any opponent, but it will cause additional damage.
The additional damage inflicted is determined by the type of die the
weapon does for damage and is summarized on the following chart:

Weapon Damage Die Additional Damage on a Natural 20
1d1 (1 point), or 1d2 +0 additional points of damage
1d3 or 1d4 +1 additional point of damage
1d6 or 1d8 +2 additional points of damage
1d10 or 1d12 +3 additional points of damage

When a weapon does multiple dice of damage, say 2d4, or 3d6, the
additional damage added for rolling a natural 20 is multiplied by the
number of dice for the weapon damage. For a weapon that does 2d4,
the additional damage would be +2 (1+1). If a weapon does 3d4 the
additional damage would be +3 (1+1+1). If a weapon does 3d6 the
additional damage for rolling a natural 20 would be +6 (+2+2+2).

[Arduin]

Welcome aboard, and for the record, this is what I do for criticals...

Critical Hits (natural 20): Max damage +1d4 and gain “advantage” on your next attack roll (roll 2D20 and select the higher result). This attack does not have to be against the same target.

Critical Fumbles (natural 1): You grant "advantage" to your opponent(s). Until your next initiative (enemies attacking you roll 2D20 and select the higher result). For ranged attacks, projectile may hit an ally, or some other mishap, bowstring snaps, etc. Saving throws and siege checks “under duress” automatically fail on a natural 1.

Now, that sounds workable without being overkill

[Treebore]

Welcome aboard, and for the record, this is what I do for criticals...

Critical Hits (natural 20): Max damage +1d4 and gain “advantage” on your next attack roll (roll 2D20 and select the higher result). This attack does not have to be against the same target.

Critical Fumbles (natural 1): You grant "advantage" to your opponent(s). Until your next initiative (enemies attacking you roll 2D20 and select the higher result). For ranged attacks, projectile may hit an ally, or some other mishap, bowstring snaps, etc. Saving throws and siege checks “under duress” automatically fail on a natural 1.

Now, that sounds workable without being overkill

Yeah, its a DnD Next idea that I liked, and have wondered about how to use it in C&C. Crits and misses are a good option.

[Arduin]

Yeah, its a DnD Next idea that I liked, and have wondered about how to use it in C&C. Crits and misses are a good option.

Yes, I saw that from the play test materials. I like this very limited usage of it. It is WAY over relied upon in Next imo.

p.s. added to my House Rules

[Treebore]

Yeah, thats been one of my concerns too, that they would use it too often.

[Arduin]

Yeah, thats been one of my concerns too, that they would use it too often.

It will be interesting to see the final rules after the input is digested, etc.

[TheMetal1]

I'm currently using the Paizo Critical Hit and Fumble Decks (there is an App for this as well for you Apple user). I like it, adds a bit of drama and tension. Fumble on a natural "1" and critical on a natural "20." The Tables in Chapter 17 in the CKG are fun to play with as well.

Question though for all of you. I have Rolemaster Classic and would love to figure out a way to use their tables and charts as an Add-on to C&C. Anyone do a conversion for this or looked at it? Thanks.

[Treebore]

Question though for all of you. I have Rolemaster Classic and would love to figure out a way to use their tables and charts as an Add-on to C&C. Anyone do a conversion for this or looked at it? Thanks.

Closest I have to that is the set of tables they published in old issue of Dragon, and one of the "Best of Dragons" too. 3? 4?

[Litzen Tallister]

Critical hits (natural 20s, which has spawned the term "unnatural 20" for rolls of 20 including whatever ability modifiers apply) I've handled as max damage. Critical fumbles tend to be used more creatively as whatever oops fits best. However, my gaming group suggested this chart (though I'm not sure of its origins):

1. You crush your own trachea. Your voice is now two octaves lower.

2. You amputate your own arm. It writhes for a while before falling still. 2 days later, it reanimates as a zombie arm and relentlessly attempts to strangle you.

3. You trip and fall off the nearest cliff, no matter how far away it is.

4. You spontaneously combust.

5. You flail wildly, inadvertently giving yourself a sexy new haircut.

6. You miss so hard that your future self comes back through time to bitchslap you.

7. Your weapon gets completely stuck in the ground. You cannot remove it no matter how hard you try. 5 years later, it has grown into a thriving weapon tree. Centuries from now, the weapon forest will be a natural wonder. And then treants will animate them and destroy us all.

8. You whiff and split an atom.

9. You lose your grip on your weapon. It flies through the air and hits a tree. This frightens a beautiful bird, which soars out of the tree, majestically twisting through the air. As you gaze upon it, you get momentarily philosophical, until your intended target renovates your skull.

10. You lop off your own head. You eventually fall into a rewarding career as a headless horseman, but always wonder what could have been.

11. You miss so hard that your attack travels through time and assassinates Lincoln.

12. You accidentally slash your own wrists. At least, you tell us it was an accident.

13. With a flurry of precision strikes, you somehow give yourself a flawless sex change operation.

14. You put out your own eye. You embrace the disfigurement, beocoming a notorious pirate. For years you terrorize the seas, hording treasure, pillaging ports and murdering innocents. One day, for just a moment, you seem to recognize one of the nameless civilians you are about to kill, as though you knew them, long ago. As soon as it came, the feeling, like their heartbeat, ceases.

15. It turns out you are not holding your weapon, but rather, an angry crab.

16. You give yourself a black eye. Everyone assumes your significant other is beating you. Your significant other starts frequently beating you, because hey, might as well.

17. Your weapon gets lodged in your pancreas.

18. Your pancreas gets lodged in your weapon.

19. Your weapon spontaneously animates. It does nothing but constantly sing catchy songs. At first it is enjoyable and quirky. Soon, it begins to grate. Eventually, in a fit of rage, you shout at your weapon to be quiet. It never sings again. It only sulks quietly, letting out the occasional sigh of pure sadness. Your guilty heart shrivels to the size of a cashew, and you become a lifeless, sullen entity, never again feeling the true touch of joy.

20. You miss. Probably because you didn't believe in yourself. Ass.

[Traveller]

I've been known to use a modified form of the impale rule from Basic Roleplaying. On a natural 20, the weapon does maximum damage plus an additional dice roll. For example, a sword that impales does 8+1d8 damage. At one point I converted Chartmaster criticals to C&C. I'd be more likely to use the former over the latter these days however.

[kreider204]

Perhaps of some interest:

http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2012/07/c ... -hits.html

[Treebore]

One caveat I often do put into my games. when a " CRIT 20" is needed to hit, meaning they actually needed to roll higher than a 20 to actually hit, I only give them normal damage to roll, no special rules to add to the damage. Such as a 1 HD Orc trying to hit a Cleric with an AC of 24. They shouldn't be able to hit, period, so for them a Crit just enables a normal to hit, with normal damage.

[AGNKim]

11. You miss so hard that your attack travels through time and assassinates Lincoln.

14. You put out your own eye. You embrace the disfigurement, becoming a notorious pirate. For years you terrorize the seas, hording treasure, pillaging ports and murdering innocents. One day, for just a moment, you seem to recognize one of the nameless civilians you are about to kill, as though you knew them, long ago. As soon as it came, the feeling, like their heartbeat, ceases.

16. You give yourself a black eye. Everyone assumes your significant other is beating you. Your significant other starts frequently beating you, because hey, might as well.

17. Your weapon gets lodged in your pancreas.

18. Your pancreas gets lodged in your weapon.

These are hilarious.

[Lobo316]

Critical hits (natural 20s, which has spawned the term "unnatural 20" for rolls of 20 including whatever ability modifiers apply) I've handled as max damage. Critical fumbles tend to be used more creatively as whatever oops fits best. However, my gaming group suggested this chart (though I'm not sure of its origins):

1. You crush your own trachea. Your voice is now two octaves lower.

2. You amputate your own arm. It writhes for a while before falling still. 2 days later, it reanimates as a zombie arm and relentlessly attempts to strangle you.

3. You trip and fall off the nearest cliff, no matter how far away it is.

4. You spontaneously combust.

5. You flail wildly, inadvertently giving yourself a sexy new haircut.

6. You miss so hard that your future self comes back through time to bitchslap you.

7. Your weapon gets completely stuck in the ground. You cannot remove it no matter how hard you try. 5 years later, it has grown into a thriving weapon tree. Centuries from now, the weapon forest will be a natural wonder. And then treants will animate them and destroy us all.

8. You whiff and split an atom.

9. You lose your grip on your weapon. It flies through the air and hits a tree. This frightens a beautiful bird, which soars out of the tree, majestically twisting through the air. As you gaze upon it, you get momentarily philosophical, until your intended target renovates your skull.

10. You lop off your own head. You eventually fall into a rewarding career as a headless horseman, but always wonder what could have been.

11. You miss so hard that your attack travels through time and assassinates Lincoln.

12. You accidentally slash your own wrists. At least, you tell us it was an accident.

13. With a flurry of precision strikes, you somehow give yourself a flawless sex change operation.

14. You put out your own eye. You embrace the disfigurement, beocoming a notorious pirate. For years you terrorize the seas, hording treasure, pillaging ports and murdering innocents. One day, for just a moment, you seem to recognize one of the nameless civilians you are about to kill, as though you knew them, long ago. As soon as it came, the feeling, like their heartbeat, ceases.

15. It turns out you are not holding your weapon, but rather, an angry crab.

16. You give yourself a black eye. Everyone assumes your significant other is beating you. Your significant other starts frequently beating you, because hey, might as well.

17. Your weapon gets lodged in your pancreas.

18. Your pancreas gets lodged in your weapon.

19. Your weapon spontaneously animates. It does nothing but constantly sing catchy songs. At first it is enjoyable and quirky. Soon, it begins to grate. Eventually, in a fit of rage, you shout at your weapon to be quiet. It never sings again. It only sulks quietly, letting out the occasional sigh of pure sadness. Your guilty heart shrivels to the size of a cashew, and you become a lifeless, sullen entity, never again feeling the true touch of joy.

20. You miss. Probably because you didn't believe in yourself. Ass.

[Lobo316]

Welcome aboard, and for the record, this is what I do for criticals...

Critical Hits (natural 20): Max damage +1d4 and gain “advantage” on your next attack roll (roll 2D20 and select the higher result). This attack does not have to be against the same target.

Critical Fumbles (natural 1): You grant "advantage" to your opponent(s). Until your next initiative (enemies attacking you roll 2D20 and select the higher result). For ranged attacks, projectile may hit an ally, or some other mishap, bowstring snaps, etc. Saving throws and siege checks “under duress” automatically fail on a natural 1.

Now, that sounds workable without being overkill

Yeah, its a DnD Next idea that I liked, and have wondered about how to use it in C&C. Crits and misses are a good option.

It's actually a combination inspired by a critical rule from the CKG (the max damage + 1d4, option A, p. 251) and yes, indeed...D&D next. I was very much intrigued with the idea (like you guys "in a limited format") so thought I'd use it for my critical system. Does add a certain flair and air of excitement when you know you've got advantage on your next attack roll (and little tension when you know you've left youself "exposed", granted combat advantage, on a natural 1).

[Fiffergrund]

That list is some funny shiznit.

That singing weapon bit reminds me a little of the singing frog in the old Looney Tunes classic.

Which makes me think I'll give someone in my campaign a talking weapon. That only talks when the owner is alone.

As far as the topic at hand, here's how I do it.

Natural 20 = crit chance. double damage dice, roll d20 again. If you get another nat 20, insta-kill.

This happened once, in Baleon-Nakt, actually.

Natural 1 means you miss next turn, but I usually spice it up with some description of epic failure.

[Arduin]

My favorite for Crit & Fumble charts is still to be found in the Arduin Grimoire. Not that I'd use them in a C&C game but, some hilarious stuff.

[Litzen Tallister]

Which makes me think I'll give someone in my campaign a talking weapon. That only talks when the owner is alone.

For talking weapons, JourneyQuest is a great reference material...if one likes their talking weapons rude and obnoxious.

The two d20s and advantage vs. disadvantage thing of D&D Next does seem a pretty good, slim mechanic for combat. Speaking of fumble systems, I like the current edition of Shadowrun: Even if a task succeeds, if the number of rolled 1s (it uses multiple d6s) exceeds the number of successes, even if the successes are sufficient to win the task roll, the task fumbles. So if rolling to vault a barbed wire fence, the individual will do so, but might get cut by the wire, or land in a dumpster, or some such thing. I really like the idea of fumbling even in success.

[Captain_K]

A natural 20 should come along once a night if you're lucky and similarly a natural 1 should come along once a night, if you're not. Celebrate the events, the whole table should get into it - make it exciting and drama packed, not just "max damage", or "you drop your weapon", its too predicable for all.
As good as Nat'l 20 is, the "fumbling" 1 should be the same.
Allow you players to create mini tables of 20s and 1s side by side that they like, just for fun or as a reward for great roll playing one night and make a big announcement "John's crit and fumble table tonight" it allows PC in on all the fun... Obviously the CK may need to strike out a line here or there.
If you roll the damage dice twice, you have a wide range of damage, or max plus something random to add insult to injury is fun. But in the end, what the PCs get, so do the monsters...