Ability Damage

[TheMetal1]

So, I had a couple of PCs take some serious Constitution Damage from a Green Slime. Problem is I couldn't find anything in the Castles & Crusades Players Handbook on the topic. In a search of my 3rd Printing PDF, there are 6 mentions of it, but those deal with Neutralize Poison, Heal, Mass Heal, Animal Shapes, Paladin Divine Healing and Poison Saving Throw. No mention of how to heal it what it actually, means, etc.

So I turned to my 2nd Printing of the Castles & Crusades Monsters & Treasure in PDF. No mention of Ability Damage, but I checked the entry for Green Slime and found "Constitution Damage", but no mention on recovery, permanency, etc. A further search of Constitution Damage led me to the +2 Sword of Puncturing, the +3 Sword of Wounding, +3 Weapon of Wounding. Necklace of Strangulation, Potion of Poison and The Rod of Withering, but the Rod mentions Constitution and Strength Damage and says this about the damage..."If the wielder scores a natural 20, the damage from that hit is a permanent ability drain." (Implying that, at least with the Rod, the damage is temporary)

So I did a search of Strength Damage and found Strength Drain in the Shadow monster entry, which tells how it is recovered..."If the victim survives the encounter, lost strength returns at the rate of 1 point every 2d4 turns."

A search of Charisma Damage shows a poison creation example that gives..."A poison that does 1d8 points of permanent charisma damage costs 6,000-6,100gp."

A search of Dexterity, Wisdom and Intelligence Damage shows nothing.

Of note though, I found the X-Ray Ring entry - which specifically mentions Temporary Constitution Damage..."Using the ring is physically exhausting, causing the wearer 1 point of temporary constitution damage per minute after the first 10 minutes of use in a single day."

So based on that it appears all the other ability damages mentioned (other than X-Ray Ring and Shadow Drain) are permanent.

I thought his all might be a hold-over from d20, so here is the summary from the d20 SRD:

Healing Ability Damage...Ability damage is temporary, just as hit point damage is. Ability damage returns at the rate of 1 point per night of rest (8 hours) for each affected ability score. Complete bed rest restores 2 points per day (24 hours) for each affected ability score.

Ability Damage...This attack damages an opponent’s ability score. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount of damage. If an attack that causes ability damage scores a critical hit, it deals twice the indicated amount of damage (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice). Points lost to ability damage return at the rate of 1 point per day (or double that if the character gets complete bed rest) to each damaged ability, and the spells lesser restoration and restoration offset ability damage as well.

In researching this, I came across the d20 SRD Ability Drain which says: This effect permanently reduces a living opponent’s ability score when the creature hits with a melee attack. The creature’s descriptive text gives the ability and the amount drained. If an attack that causes ability drain scores a critical hit, it drains twice the indicated amount (if the damage is expressed as a die range, roll two dice). Unless otherwise specified in the creature’s description, a draining creature gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit) whenever it drains an ability score no matter how many points it drains. Temporary hit points gained in this fashion last for a maximum of 1 hour. Some ability drain attacks allow a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ draining creature’s racial HD + draining creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). If no saving throw is mentioned, none is allowed. Points lost to ability drain, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points.

I did a search of Ability Drain in M&T and found the Allip (Temporary Wisdom Drain); so I expanded the search to "Drain" and found Periapt of Foul Rotting (permanently drains 1 point of dexterity, constitution, and charisma every week); Vacuous Grimoire (save or lose 1 point of Intelligence, save again or lose 2 points of Wisdom); the Idiot Card in the Deck of Many Things (drain of 1d4+1 points of intelligence); Lamia (Wisdom Drain - Temporary);

Energy Drain is another similar topic as level loss is mentioned in each case (Devourer, Prysmal Eye (Nonocculus), Spectre, Vampire, Wight, Wraith, Scarab of Protection, Sword of Life Stealing mentions level loss but doesn't use the apparent naming conventions here.

So with all this being said, this might be a topic for the PHB and M&T Errata thread, but figured it could use at least its own look from all of you C&C Players out there.

1. Was this the intent of the Trolls to have Ability Drain to be permanent unless specifically mentioned?
2. Why was it left out of the PHB and M&T (or maybe covered in a later printing)?
3. Was this simply a hold-over from d20 and there was never any intention of having ability damage unless specifically mentioned.

Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Arduin]

Sounds like this needs to go into the PHB errata thread and also possibly into the M&T thread. Latest PH has ability damage handled by Paladin, Heal & Mass Heal. There are a couple creatures in M&T that do Ability Drain. No mention of how long it lasts.

[Omote]

Page 156, 2nd column, (5th printing) under Energy Drain is the answers you are looking for.

Personally, I have 1 point of attribute damage healed per day of rest (or 2 points with complete bed rest) just like the d20 SRD. That works good IMO. Plus, damaged attributes play a pretty large part in how I damage the PCs. HP damage by itself can be quite boring.

~O

[Snoring Rock]

True Omote! I love ability damage done by poison or spells. It gives the game depth. It one of the things D20 got right. You have to be carful however. You can over do it.

[Arduin]

Page 156, 2nd column, (5th printing) under Energy Drain is the answers you are looking for.

Neither the M&T nor PHB have 156 pages. Sure that's the right page #?

[moriarty777]

Page 156, 2nd column, (5th printing) under Energy Drain is the answers you are looking for.

Neither the M&T nor PHB have 156 pages. Sure that's the right page #?

Seems to have been a typo. Try 126. It's in the sacing throw section.

[kreider204]

Seems to have been a typo. Try 126. It's in the sacing throw section.

You're on a roll ...

[Omote]

Indeed. The page number reference should say p.126.

~O

[Arduin]

[


Seems to have been a typo. Try 126. It's in the sacing throw section.

Doesn't cover the damage type being referred to. It only covers Energy drain. It is a hole in the rules.

[moriarty777]

[


Seems to have been a typo. Try 126. It's in the saving throw section.

Doesn't cover the damage type being referred to. It only covers Energy drain. It is a hole in the rules.

Symantics... Since it refers to both levels and ability scores, there is no reason why you couldn't apply the same logic for your needs. This would be consistent with old school logic which means permanent unless otherwise specified and few things can restore these. However, if you are looking for additional precedents for some that are temporarily lost and easier to regain, there is additional material in the CKG. (QuickCharge rules on page 50). This doesn't address the issue but there is no reason why something similar couldn't be applied.

Essentially, nothing different needs to be put into the book though putting it under Energy Drain might have not been the best solution.

M

[Arduin]

Symantics...
M

Umm, no. Try again Slim.