new C&C edition vs D&D Next

[Arduin]

Is there any overview of what exactly D&D Next will be like?

No

Ok, with all the playtests around, I thought there might be a clear concise article showing what this game will be. Many people wont blindly buy it.

It would be on Wizards.com if anywhere. But, it isn't

[Treebore]

OK, now I am liking what I am hearing! I'll definitely be picking up the core books now!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... 2F20140527

[Arduin]

OK, now I am liking what I am hearing! I'll definitely be picking up the core books now!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... 2F20140527

This will get me to pick up the free PDF

Seriously though, good mktg move! The free pdf will help ensure that 5th isn't the disaster that 4th was.

[Breakdaddy]

They have learned some hard lessons from the 4th edition release. I am very happy that they are making these moves to keep their customer base informed and intact (hopefully growing!). There are 4e fans that will refuse to switch and the boat may have sailed on regaining the Pathfinder crowd but a healthy D&D brand is very important to help grow the fanbase and I applaud their move in the 5e direction. With proper marketing and a slimmer/more modular ruleset this game could be the shot in the arm for the tabletop RPG hobby to bring the next generation of gamers into this hobby. C&C is an amazing ruleset and is an excellent gateway to tabletop RPGs for new players, but only WOTC can bring the flagship brand back on course and revitalize the hobby with the brand recognition and marketing budget that they can bring to bear for this release. I'm rooting for the success of 5e and also am happy to be seeing some really exciting changes to the D&D ruleset with this release.

[alcyone]

Why do they call it Basic D&D? We already have Basic D&D. I guess there is no confusion if I call Holmes, B/X, BECMI, RC "Classic D&D", but geez.

[Arduin]

Why do they call it Basic D&D? We already have Basic D&D. I guess there is no confusion if I call Holmes, B/X, BECMI, RC "Classic D&D", but geez.

This i the only major marketing screw up I've seen them make with 5th. Hopefully someone there will see this classic branding error before launch.

[Breakdaddy]

Why do they call it Basic D&D? We already have Basic D&D. I guess there is no confusion if I call Holmes, B/X, BECMI, RC "Classic D&D", but geez.

Yeah I hear ya. Just to be honest, though, I dont think WoTC is concerned about the TSR stuff that came before. They are approaching this as THE version of D&D with all the associated nomenclature and naming schemes. Personally, I cant blame them. We old school guys already know the differences and the new guys will find it much easier to know what to purchase or acquire with the easy to understand names like "basic" etc.

YMMV and all that, of course

[Arduin]

Yeah I hear ya. Just to be honest, though, I dont think WoTC is concerned about the TSR stuff that came before. They are approaching this as THE version of D&D with all the associated nomenclature and naming schemes.

In branding it doesn't matter what the company is concerned with internally really, it matters what the market perceives. That is why this type of move is considered a classic mistake. Causing brand confusion before a big launch is a BIG no no.

Most of the buyers that are trying to get back to WotC have a product already in their head under the Ladder rung of "D&D Basic". Whoever came up with the same name for this product is an amateur.

[Breakdaddy]

Yeah I hear ya. Just to be honest, though, I dont think WoTC is concerned about the TSR stuff that came before. They are approaching this as THE version of D&D with all the associated nomenclature and naming schemes.

In branding it doesn't matter what the company is concerned with internally really, it matters what the market perceives. That is why this type of move is considered a classic mistake. Causing brand confusion before a big launch is a BIG no no.

Most of the buyers that are trying to get back to WotC have a product already in their head under the Ladder rung of "D&D Basic". Whoever came up with the same name for this product is an amateur.

Im sure youre by far not the only one to feel this way but is the market really so confused about this? You and I clearly wont be so why would others? Lets say a new guy goes out looking for this game. Its far more likely he will encounter the new shiny version out there (ebay notwithstanding of course) than be utterly befuddled by the surfeit of items that bear this same name. Clearly I am not trying to invalidate your personal feeling on this issue, just offering my own biased point of view. Right or wrong, my perception is that there will be little confusion on the new basic v. old basic D&D front. I'm not going to accidentally buy a new Corvette Stingray instead of an older, classic , model for example. If a bunch of cats go out and buy the wrong items due to this confusion then I will turn out to be flat wrong (not the first time, sadly).

[Arduin]

Yeah I hear ya. Just to be honest, though, I dont think WoTC is concerned about the TSR stuff that came before. They are approaching this as THE version of D&D with all the associated nomenclature and naming schemes.

In branding it doesn't matter what the company is concerned with internally really, it matters what the market perceives. That is why this type of move is considered a classic mistake. Causing brand confusion before a big launch is a BIG no no.

Most of the buyers that are trying to get back to WotC have a product already in their head under the Ladder rung of "D&D Basic". Whoever came up with the same name for this product is an amateur.

Im sure youre by far not the only one to feel this way but is the market really so confused about this?

Here's how you answer that question from a marketing/branding standpoint:

Go survey ~50 people who left WotC after 4.x came out. Ask them, "What is D&D Basic?

If they DON'T answer something like, "It's the new stripped down rules for 5th edition." There is confusion in the same % as those who didn't answer that.

That's how you determine.

I already know the answer. So does any other person who has successfully been a marketing exec on a global scale.

<hint> If I start a new auto line I will NOT call it the "Ultimate Driving Machine" If I was creating a new D&D Edition I also wouldn't call it 1st Edition AD&D. No matter what was thought internally at the company.

[Breakdaddy]

Arduin Said:
"<hint> If I start a new auto line I will NOT call it the "Ultimate Driving Machine" If I was creating a new D&D Edition I also wouldn't call it 1st Edition AD&D. No matter what was thought internally at the company."

Breakdaddy Says:
Awww yeahhhh....

[alcyone]

I suppose already when I run a Classic game I tell people exactly which books I am using, so the scenario I imagined where I say "Show up at 8, we are playing Basic D&D" and everyone comes with a different edition and I hate the world for a week probably wouldn't come to pass.

[Breakdaddy]

I suppose already when I run a Classic game I tell people exactly which books I am using, so the scenario I imagined where I say "Show up at 8, we are playing Basic D&D" and everyone comes with a different edition and I hate the world for a week probably wouldn't come to pass.

There are SO MANY better reasons to hate the world for a week!

[Buttmonkey]

I suppose already when I run a Classic game I tell people exactly which books I am using, so the scenario I imagined where I say "Show up at 8, we are playing Basic D&D" and everyone comes with a different edition and I hate the world for a week probably wouldn't come to pass.

There are SO MANY better reasons to hate the world for a week!

Oh, God. Now I feel obligated to list them:

1. Carrot Top. Even after all these years, it still hurts.
2. Greedo shooting first.
3. They cancelled Firefly!
4. Buffy seasons 6 and 7 (except for Once More With Feeling, Conversations With Dead People, and the Anya-centered episode from season 7).
5. Nickelback, post-Summer of '69 Bryan Adams, Celine Dion (basically, Canada).
6. People who say Curt Cobain was the voice of his generation when everyone knows Pearl Jam was the superior group and no one, not even Ethan Hawke, speaks for everybody (except for me with this list).
7. Did I mention season 6 of Buffy? The loan shark? Did that really happen?
8. The Sundays retired so the band leaders could raise their child(ren). Sucks for the rest of us.
9. Eventually, waaaay down the line, all of the stars will die and immortality will truly begin to suck. What's the point of being a vampire if you have to choose between being consumed by an expanding sun or floating for eternity through nothingness with nothing to do but contemplate how good blood used to taste back in the day when there was blood to suck?
10. My wife makes me watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette and Teen Mom (1 and 2).

[kreider204]

Oh, God. Now I feel obligated to list them ...

It scares the *&^% out of me that I agree with each and every one of them ...

[Treebore]

I find it curious, with regards to the new D&D news, how lukewarm I am to it all. Some are of course angry/disappointed for one reason or another, and others seem to be pretty ecstatic. Me? I'm curious, liking what I am seeing, and interested, but far from feeling any kind of strong emotion about it. I can only guess its because I am very happy with my gaming, and am not looking for some new system to save it. Maybe thats an advantage to liking many systems, and having enough people to play several of them with? Versus someone who is trapped in groups that will only play very few, relatively specific, games?

[alcyone]

Oh, God. Now I feel obligated to list them:

I can't really find any fault in these, so I will be mad about them for the rest of the week. Well, actually, I think Eddie Vedder opened the gates for copycat singers who sound like they stuffed their mouths full of mashed potatoes, but I get ya.

The Sundays, I think, were the first real concert I ever went to. Yo La Tengo opened for them.

[dachda]

10. My wife makes me watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette and Teen Mom (1 and 2).

Are you sure you don't secretly love these shows? Otherwise can't ya sit with her while she watches and you read your C&C Player's book again?

[Sir Ironside]

So, you,Aergraith and Kreider agree to your list. I guess I should comment.

I suppose already when I run a Classic game I tell people exactly which books I am using, so the scenario I imagined where I say "Show up at 8, we are playing Basic D&D" and everyone comes with a different edition and I hate the world for a week probably wouldn't come to pass.

There are SO MANY better reasons to hate the world for a week!

Oh, God. Now I feel obligated to list them:

1. Carrot Top. Even after all these years, it still hurts. (Minor annoyance, easily ignored.)
2. Greedo shooting first. (Can't tell you how much I could care less.)
3. They cancelled Firefly! (Wasn't on the initial bandwagon, and too much time has passed to think realistically on it now.)
4. Buffy seasons 6 and 7 (except for Once More With Feeling, Conversations With Dead People, and the Anya-centered episode from season 7). (Never liked the show, had zero impact, on me, when it got cancelled.)
5. Nickelback, post-Summer of '69 Bryan Adams, Celine Dion (basically, Canada). (With one broad stroke, you prove you can be an asshole.)
6. People who say Curt Cobain was the voice of his generation when everyone knows Pearl Jam was the superior group and no one, not even Ethan Hawke, speaks for everybody (except for me with this list). (Disagree. In this you are totally wrong.)
7. Did I mention season 6 of Buffy? The loan shark? Did that really happen? (Again, my care level couldn't be lower.)
8. The Sundays retired so the band leaders could raise their child(ren). Sucks for the rest of us. (Another number, another no shits given.)
9. Eventually, waaaay down the line, all of the stars will die and immortality will truly begin to suck. What's the point of being a vampire if you have to choose between being consumed by an expanding sun or floating for eternity through nothingness with nothing to do but contemplate how good blood used to taste back in the day when there was blood to suck? (Fiction never carries that much weight within my life.)
10. My wife makes me watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette and Teen Mom (1 and 2). (That's your own problem that you maybe too immature to deal with it.)

You've basically have become my least favourite person on these forums.

[Arduin]

Oh, God. Now I feel obligated to list them:

I feel old. No one I am friends with would feel any emotion towards stuff on this list.

[Treebore]

It amazes me how often attempts at humor can fly so far over people's heads.

[alcyone]

Maybe the humor flying over heads is meant to be humorous too? Too meta for me!

[kreider204]

Maybe the humor flying over heads is meant to be humorous too?

I hope so, but I'm not feeling terribly optimistic.

[alcyone]

Arduin Said:
"<hint> If I start a new auto line I will NOT call it the "Ultimate Driving Machine" If I was creating a new D&D Edition I also wouldn't call it 1st Edition AD&D. No matter what was thought internally at the company."

Breakdaddy Says:
Awww yeahhhh....

Is that a 2008 Kia Spectra? I had one of those, but mine had a spoiler. I lost it in a pile-up around Christmas. Sweet, sweet ride. I could do 65 mph, maybe more in that baby. Manual transmission, too, I could leave a green light in seconds.

[Buttmonkey]

(With one broad stroke, you prove you can be an asshole.)

Now that was a funny retort.

You've basically have become my least favourite person on these forums.

Aww.

[Buttmonkey]

10. My wife makes me watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette and Teen Mom (1 and 2).

Are you sure you don't secretly love these shows? Otherwise can't ya sit with her while she watches and you read your C&C Player's book again?

Actually, I do read through those programs. Except for when Janelle is on Teen Mom 2. Her train wreck of a life is occasionally amusing to watch. It makes me feel good about myself to see someone else screwing up life so badly.

On a happy note, my wife has so far not forced me to watch this season's Bachelorette on the grounds that no one likes Andi. <shudder> I'm enjoying this brief reprieve.

[Breakdaddy]

Arduin Said:
"<hint> If I start a new auto line I will NOT call it the "Ultimate Driving Machine" If I was creating a new D&D Edition I also wouldn't call it 1st Edition AD&D. No matter what was thought internally at the company."

Breakdaddy Says:
Awww yeahhhh....

Is that a 2008 Kia Spectra? I had one of those, but mine had a spoiler. I lost it in a pile-up around Christmas. Sweet, sweet ride. I could do 65 mph, maybe more in that baby. Manual transmission, too, I could leave a green light in seconds.

Werd, son! Thats my KIA. Sometimes I like to get it all the way up to 66 MPH and blow the doors off of those Prius guys I always see around here

[capmarvel]

Not that it matters...but obviously I've lost this thread. Oh well.

[Breakdaddy]

Not that it matters...but obviously I've lost this thread. Oh well.

I declare you THREADWINNER, chieftain. Take THAT, mother Earf!

[Zudrak]

*casts Limited Threadsurrection*

And the differences between the Advantages of D&D Next and those of the CKG/Book of Familiars are...?