Book of Familiars - Familiar Strength Bonus, what?

[Transcona]

Some of the familiars get a bonus added to their strength score as the master levels. The problem I'm having is that familiar stat blocks are either in the M&T or in the same format as that book and there are no attribute scores for monsters. What am I supposed to add the bonus to? Is there a base score that I am missing or is this another huge mistake in this book?

[Captain_K]

If I have flavor of CnC right, each CK will decide how detailed to make creatures. As a rule CnC "monster" and animals and thus familiars have the INT pretty clearly noted and it up to the CK to flesh out as needed. There are countless sources in 3E+ DnD to get base score ideas for all creatures. But I would guess if stronger, give it more things it can do better/longer/more damage with any strength base abilities. keep it simple is the rule of the game.

Keep in mind Familiars is a conversion to CnC so it was once assumed in the writing of that book that each creature had the classic 6 stats.

I think you'll hear more or less that kind of input from the more seasoned players than I.

[Troll Lord]

Trans,

indeed monsters in C&C do not have strength scores, or any set attribute scores listed. This is where you'll have to CK the decision and determine how you want your game to run. What kind of affect the increased strength has on the monster in question. We purposely do not list these things because its your game now!

But I'm sure there are hosts of people here that will give you some good pointers!

Trollzah!

Steve

[Troll Lord]

If I have flavor of CnC right, each CK will decide how detailed to make creatures. As a rule CnC "monster" and animals and thus familiars have the INT pretty clearly noted and it up to the CK to flesh out as needed. There are countless sources in 3E+ DnD to get base score ideas for all creatures. But I would guess if stronger, give it more things it can do better/longer/more damage with any strength base abilities. keep it simple is the rule of the game.

Keep in mind Familiars is a conversion to CnC so it was once assumed in the writing of that book that each creature had the classic 6 stats.

I think you'll hear more or less that kind of input from the more seasoned players than I.

Dead on!

Steve

[Transcona]

So basically this is a stat that doesn't have any president anywhere in this rules set , not even in the BOF book. If this ever gets revised it would be much better to put these as strength bonuses rather than additions to the strength score that doesn't exist, that way you could just add them to damage, strength saves etc. As it stands that kind of thing is left to interpretation and I'm fine with that as a GM but it makes this game a really hard sell to other players when they see things like this that come off as confusing or unfinished. That being said this book is very cool and C&C is one of my favourite RPGs and I'm always eager to pick up new materials.

[Troll Lord]

So basically this is a stat that doesn't have any president anywhere in this rules set , not even in the BOF book. If this ever gets revised it would be much better to put these as strength bonuses rather than additions to the strength score that doesn't exist, that way you could just add them to damage, strength saves etc. As it stands that kind of thing is left to interpretation and I'm fine with that as a GM but it makes this game a really hard sell to other players when they see things like this that come off as confusing or unfinished. That being said this book is very cool and C&C is one of my favourite RPGs and I'm always eager to pick up new materials.

C&C is actually a surprisingly hard sell because the versatility of the Siege Engine isn't easy to explain. I've run games from California, to Vegas, to Chicago and on to New Jersey and I can't count the number of people who have just not grasped that they can try anything. I explain it to them, and they don't get it until they get their hands dirty. Once into it, they pick up on it insanely fast.

And that same principle applies to what you are talking about. Your an experienced GM and can adjust your game tto the loose wording of the ability. New people might not be able to do the same, at first, but they will. And they'll figure it out fast. When I gave Casey the task of converting that book I told him specifically to go light on the rules, leave it as open as you can because adding familiars to every class can easily get out of hand and monty hall a character, party or a game.

One of the things all of us have to watch for is what we call Rules Creep. The tendency we all have to put new rules in to cover this question or that question or what not. And that is fine on one level, but once we've put it in print, its canon and its hard to undo it. Now its a hard and fast rule that affects peoples tables. And over time they just start piling up and up until you have 300 pages of rules . . . sort of like the US Tax Code.

All that said, I do understand the problems you have explaining these concepts to new players. Perhaps an inset that gives people examples of what they can do to adjust the strength of the familiar would be helpful.

And thank you for the kind words! Trollzah!
Steve

[Treebore]

That is another example of why I keep the 3E SRD Bookmarked, they do give attributes to monsters, so I use those to "eyeball" what I think is appropriate for my game at the time. Meaning, the higher the level they get, the more I keep it at the "3E power level" than the "1E Power Level", which is what C&C seems to most closely try to emulate. Meaning the 1E Power level. Most of the time I prefer to use 2E monsters, though. Especially Giants.

[mmbutter]

And over time they just start piling up and up until you have 300 pages of rules . . . sort of like the US Tax Code.

It would be nice if the US tax code was that small. And I'm glad I don't have to read anything like the 74,000 pages of tax code to play a game!

[Ronin77]

In the past Ive just treated the bonus as if it was an ability Adjustment. So a +2 is like saying the creature has a +2 to strength based rolls or bonuses. It works surprisingly well..