Free D&D 5th ed PDF

[Arduin]

Wow. magic got a boost in power.
A Firebolt cantrip does 1d10 damage & can set things on fire. Magic Missile spell starts with 3 missiles at Level 1.

Yep. That combined with frequency of use, slot swapping, etc., casters rule like no other version. Leveling is much faster also. Kill a few orcs and you are slinging 3rd level spells. It is clearly geared towards kids who are used to video game, never die, demi-god power mentality.

[DMSamuel]

Totally understandable. I just have a little bit of a different view on this because 3E had me to the point where I was very, very seriously considering giving up gaming all together. Which was pretty major to me, since at that time I had been gaming from 1985 to 2005. So if your still able to play it with others and have fun, your doing far better than I did, and that is a good thing.

3e was the one edition that I played the least because I really didn't like it. Instead, I played all sorts of other games, taking a 5 or so year hiatus from D&D. So yeah, completely get where you are coming from.

[DMSamuel]

Wow. magic got a boost in power.
A Firebolt cantrip does 1d10 damage & can set things on fire. Magic Missile spell starts with 3 missiles at Level 1.

Yep. That combined with frequency of use, slot swapping, etc., casters rule like no other version. Leveling is much faster also. Kill a few orcs and you are slinging 3rd level spells. It is clearly geared towards kids who are used to video game, never die, demi-god power mentality.

Yes, exactly.

Unfortunately they had this idea that 1st and 2nd level would be "training" levels in which new players could learn how to play their characters. So they made the xp needed for 2nd level very very low (250 I think?) and then from 2nd to 3rd only needs 950 xp total (I think?)... but then 1st level spells are powerful and so by the time the PC has ~1000 xp, they are very powerful.

The thing I was hoping they would get away from is the superhero at 1st level feel of 3e (a little) and 4e (a whole bunch). But alas, that is not to be.

[Arduin]

The thing I was hoping they would get away from is the superhero at 1st level feel of 3e (a little) and 4e (a whole bunch). But alas, that is not to be.

Marketing wise they can't. The aim is to capture a new audience. The 10-15 year demo. A close relative is an English Prof and gives guidance to companies as to writing to the edu level of the intended customer. I shot the pdf to him. He ranked it at a reading level of ~4th grade.

I DO hope they entice those kids into the RPG market though. As they get older they will pick up games written towards older teens & adults...

[DMSamuel]

Marketing wise they can't. The aim is to capture a new audience. The 10-15 year demo. A close relative is an English Prof and gives guidance to companies as to writing to the edu level of the intended customer. I shot the pdf to him. He ranked it at a reading level of ~4th grade.

Too true. It makes me feel so old!

I DO hope they entice those kids into the RPG market though. As they get older they will pick up games written towards older teens & adults...

Absolutely - this is my thinking as well.

[Arduin]

I DO hope they entice those kids into the RPG market though. As they get older they will pick up games written towards older teens & adults...

Absolutely - this is my thinking as well.

With their marketing muscle and brand recognition I think they will get some traction the water wing/shallow end of the pool crowd.

I know a guy that works back East at Hasbro Corp offices. In about 9 months I'll see if I can get some numbers....

[DMSamuel]

I know a guy that works back East at Hasbro Corp offices. In about 9 months I'll see if I can get some numbers....

That will be interesting to see. I am assuming they had to have some corporate buy-in to allow them to do a 2 year playtest and release virtually no new product while still retaining staff.

I also know that they are taking a whole-brand approach to D&D - it is not just an RPG, it is a video game line, an MMO (or 2), novels, toys (Kreo), and probably clothing and other toys. plus the digital subscription model that they will probably use for the players of 5e... it could be lucrative.

[Arduin]

I know a guy that works back East at Hasbro Corp offices. In about 9 months I'll see if I can get some numbers....

That will be interesting to see. I am assuming they had to have some corporate buy-in to allow them to do a 2 year playtest and release virtually no new product while still retaining staff.

Yes. It ALL had to be approved by Hasbro suits. It is a do or die for that particular product line. With ALL that portends...

I also know that they are taking a whole-brand approach to D&D - it is not just an RPG, it is a video game line, an MMO (or 2), novels, toys (Kreo), and probably clothing and other toys. plus the digital subscription model that they will probably use for the players of 5e... it could be lucrative.

Yes, that is true. At the end of the day, if the RPG product line doesn't pull its weight, it will be de-financed. But, that determination is at least 2 years down the road yet.

[Relaxo]

PS- by the way, the pre-order price on Amazon is "only" $98 for all 3 books. Still, that's $98 I can spend on stuff I'll actually use.

Three Sisters Kickstarter!!!!

[Arduin]

PS- by the way, the pre-order price on Amazon is "only" $98 for all 3 books. Still, that's $98 I can spend on stuff I'll actually use.

Three Sisters Kickstarter!!!!

party-smiley-020.gif (6.33 KiB) Viewed 5443 times

[Arduin]

Another munchkin feature for the kiddies. If your PC has 50 hp as its current max. For an attack to kill you at one go, must deal at least 100 hp of damage to you PC!

[Arduin]

Reading some of what little fluff exists in the PDF. The section on sex/gender jumps the Shark for kids. The author is obviously intimidated by the loons that infect some RPG message boards.

[Julian Grimm]

It's a simple answer; If you don't like it delete the PDF and move on.

[Arduin]

Better solution. Don't like a thread, get off of it. Don't like freedom of expression? Start your own totalitarian country.

[Arduin]

Printer friendly pdf link: http://media.wizards.com/downloads/dnd/ ... endly).pdf

[Desrimal]

I think D&D 5th looks very interesting!

I like the focus on personality traits in character creation. It keeps in mind that this is a game where you actually play a role. I also like how you start with a general character and then you choose a specialty (or archetype) at level 3. We need to see more specialties though!
I made a 1st level character (dwarf cleric) in about 20 min.

The rules: The advantage/disadvantage rule seems like a good idea (and a good way to keep players from min/max’ing).
I also like proficiency and how it ties to attacks, skills, attribute checks and saves. It’s kinda like the siege engine.
The short rest/ long rest thing seems odd?

Finally I have to say that it reads well, but I have yet to see how it plays. Anyway I’m gonna try this game. The group I’m in prefer Pathfinder, except for me (I prefer C&C off course). This game could be a good compromise 

[Arduin]

The short rest/ long rest thing seems odd?

That, the Romper Room char death rules & the non Vancian spell system is a nod to the 4e "characters shouldn't die but only need to be 'reset'" paradigm. If they hadn't polluted the edition with that flavor it might of had a chance of pulling in a larger % of pre-3.x players.

The rest of the rules look pretty compatible with pre 4e stuff. So, adventures (with proper care to conversion for non-immortal PCs) & stripping out the inevitable feat creep, should be raid-able for other games.

As far as overall eval? If this game didn't have the D&D I.P., it wouldn't go anywhere in the RPG market.

[Julian Grimm]

Better solution. Don't like a thread, get off of it. Don't like freedom of expression? Start your own totalitarian country.

Since my expression doesn't mesh with yours I should go away? I highly doubt that I am going anywhere.

[Arduin]

Better solution. Don't like a thread, get off of it. Don't like freedom of expression? Start your own totalitarian country.

Since my expression doesn't mesh with yours I should go away?

NO. Just don't tell me that I shouldn't write about something YOU don't like. (remember the sequence of this conversation????????? I see that you omitted YOUR original attack on me. Typical behavior of dishonest people)

That concept should be simple enough for even you to comprehend. No?

Now, run along and troll elsewhere.

[Julian Grimm]

First, I deleted nothing so I don't know what you are talking about. Second, I have a low tolerance for edition wars and bashing, which is where this thread is going. Finally, I do not see how a disagreement is trolling.

That said, I am not here to argue with anyone. I feel things are beginning to go beyond simple criticism and moving toward bashing and is heading to attacks on those who will play the system. I may be wrong, I have been before, this is just my opinion.

The bottom line is that I am not here to troll anyone nor do I troll people. If you feel that I was I am sorry. I only offered a solution to the issue of the game being so 'bad' for those in this thread. Which is, delete the PDF, forget 5e and play the game you like. Nothing more, nothing less.

As an aside, the reason I stay here and have quit going to other websites and forums is the constant bashing of editions, constant bashing of 'new school' players and games, similar antics that are present on other OSR based sites. This is also why I reject the OSR as a whole given the preponderance of this attitude. These forums have been free of such things and I want to keep it that way.

[Arduin]

Finally, I do not see how a disagreement is trolling.

Your original attack was NOT mere disagreement. Go have your psychotic break about people criticizing 5th Ed elsewhere. Or, not. You are now on Ignore and I will not even be reading your comments anymore.

[DMSamuel]

Wow, that escalated... quickly.

Anyhow - I wasn't trying to edition bash, and I apologize if what I said could be construed that way - I've played them all, and as I have said before, I see good things and bad things in all of them. In fact, my motto is "play the game you want to play." It is even the tag-line of my own website, RPG Musings - you can see it right there under the name. Different people want different things out of their games, nothing wrong with that.

As an aside, the reason I stay here and have quit going to other websites and forums is the constant bashing of editions, constant bashing of 'new school' players and games, similar antics that are present on other OSR based sites. This is also why I reject the OSR as a whole given the preponderance of this attitude.

The only other set of forums that I frequent on the internet is RPG Geek because they also don't abide by edition wars. They aren't OSR focused, though, as the conversations there can be for any system and any edition. Any thread where edition bashing starts to happen is usually squelched by the users because many of us value a war-free zone.

[alcyone]

All I can say is, when someone asks if I want to play D&D Basic I will assume they mean one of these:

https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/setpages/basic.html

unless they tell me otherwise.

[Julian Grimm]

Your original attack was NOT mere disagreement. Go have your psychotic break about people criticizing 5th Ed elsewhere. Or, not. You are now on Ignore and I will not even be reading your comments anymore.

If that's what you want then I can do nothing about it. I wanted to settle this like gentlemen. If you do change you mind I will be available to settle this disagreement in PM and no longer keep it in this thread.

[Julian Grimm]

Wow, that escalated... quickly.

Anyhow - I wasn't trying to edition bash, and I apologize if what I said could be construed that way - I've played them all, and as I have said before, I see good things and bad things in all of them. In fact, my motto is "play the game you want to play." It is even the tag-line of my own website, RPG Musings - you can see it right there under the name. Different people want different things out of their games, nothing wrong with that.

As an aside, the reason I stay here and have quit going to other websites and forums is the constant bashing of editions, constant bashing of 'new school' players and games, similar antics that are present on other OSR based sites. This is also why I reject the OSR as a whole given the preponderance of this attitude.

The only other set of forums that I frequent on the internet is RPG Geek because they also don't abide by edition wars. They aren't OSR focused, though, as the conversations there can be for any system and any edition. Any thread where edition bashing starts to happen is usually squelched by the users because many of us value a war-free zone.

I appreciate that sentiment. I am truly sorry that I could not resolve the other issue. And don't take me as a defender of 5e. However, I do see it as the best edition WOTC has put out to date. Some of the things there are geared toward a younger and different set of players which has to happen to get new players in. While I don't like some of it I see why it has happened.

What keeps me away from 5e are two things: 1) I am now so invested in C&C that there is no reason to buy new books. 2) The price of admission is too high. C&C has better price points and, with the sales, is more easily accessible.

Rules can be changed, problems can be fixed. My own theory is that if you don't like something fix it. No gaming police will come stop you from playing. If someone runs 5e where we now play, I'll give it a shot. The same thing I did with 4e. Then I will make my decision.

[Arduin]

Now that we are done with the OT junk & trolling.

The next free PDF update should come out around the time of the 1st Hard cover release. That will probably have monster material & some DMG material. I'll start a new thread at that time with more review of the system...

[alcyone]

Yeah, what is the topic anyway? Just Arduin's opinion on 5e?

[Arduin]

(I see one is still hiding under a bridge. Nothin' a sharp stick can't handle. There we go...)

Now, by reading LOTS of individual feedback it appears that the most liked item in 5th is the Advantage/Disadvantage 2D20 mechanism. While it does eliminate the need for some low level addition and subtraction (and knowing some game rules) a GM needs to look at how it changes odds % at various points of the game situation. That is all it does after all.

A section of the CKG delves into varying % chance via difficulty levels with the Siege Engine. So, if not paying attention, the 2D20 mechanism can be mildly helpful/harmful or wildly so depending on the situation. Just something to keep in mind.

[Traveller]

I appreciate that sentiment. I am truly sorry that I could not resolve the other issue. And don't take me as a defender of 5e. However, I do see it as the best edition WOTC has put out to date. Some of the things there are geared toward a younger and different set of players which has to happen to get new players in. While I don't like some of it I see why it has happened.

Julian, while this may be the best edition Hasbro has put out to date, it still is a steaming pile of crap compared to TSR's output. Even 2d Edition is better, and we know how fond of the splat TSR was in the 2d Edition era. Dungeons & Dragons died over a decade ago, and Hasbro has been reanimating the corpse since then. I deleted the PDFs and moved on, because I no longer give a damn about their product. They lost me back in 1999.

Now that I got the obligatory bashing of "5th edition" out of the way, can I go now?

[Arduin]

Wow, that escalated... quickly.

Yep. When someone jumps into thread and [ironically] starts telling others that they shouldn't voice their opinion of a product. I take the spiked baseball bat to them. It's the only way to keep freedom of speech alive.


Interesting that it happened on the 5th of July.