Wands/Staves/Potions/Scrolls

[Warunsun]

Greetings.

When found in treasure a wand generally has a certain number of charges as decided on by the DM. As the DM I might know/decide who created the wand or I might not care or consider that information unattainable to the PCs. For some spells it is matter of fact: A wand of cure light wounds heals 1d8 hit points. For other spells like fireball there is the chance for variable effects (1d6 damage per caster level).

The C&C PH doesn't indicate how wands work at all and very sparse information seems to be in Monsters & Treasure. I have generally assumed that only someone who can cast a spell normally can use a wand to cast that spell. And that the spell would work at the user's caster level and not the creator's caster level but it is not clear. Further staves are specifically listed as functioning at 6th level of ability but oddly, scrolls don't discuss user's caster VS creator's caster level but potions do and example is a strange one: a Potion of Fireballs that bestows the drinker with the ability to cast fireball at the creator's caster level.

So how is this supposed to work? It is just a DM fiat decision? So how do you all do it?

Do these items require the character to be able to cast the spell in question or perhaps require the spell in question to be on their class lists? Do they function at creator's level or user level?

Thanks.

[Andrew]

I'd assume only spellcasters would be able to use wands. For spell-level, that would be your choice depending on the scenario at hand. Either the creator imbued it with a set amount of strength (i.e. a particular level) regardless of the user's level or you could easily say the power at which a user is able to impose upon the magic item is level-related. The second option being you'd use the wand-user's level to determine strength.

In a nutshell, it's all relative...

[Rigon]

I had this same question last Spring and it generated a bit of a discussion. Here is the thread for you to look over. I'm hoping the Trolls clarify this in the next printing of the M&T.

R-

[Warunsun]

I had this same question last Spring and it generated a bit of a discussion.

Thanks for the thread pointer. According to the many analysis made the book is about as clear as mud. LOL. It sounds like to keep it internally consistent I am going to have to make do extra bookkeeping (which I consider the antitheses of C&C). While at first as a game master I was happy with the seemingly high-level requirements to make items now it seems a poor choice because of wands, scrolls, and potions. By the time a character can make many of these he absolutely doesn't need to.

[DMSamuel]

By the time a character can make many of these he absolutely doesn't need to.

I consider that a feature, not a bug.


I do find the question interesting though - thanks for the thread pointer Rigon, I hadn't seen that conversation.

I think, for myself, I am going with the least amount of bookkeeping and the thing that is easiest to remember (for me)... A wand will cast the spell as it is written in the spell description and at that base level. Therefore I don't have to worry about the caster level of the creator, or the user's level, or the charger's level, or any of that stuff.

For spells that scale with caster level, I will allow the wand to scale as well. The wand will expend one charge per power increase. So, for example, if a 5th level wizard wants to cast Magic missile from a wand of MM, they can use 1 charge to cast a 1st level MM spell. If they want the wand to create the MM spell as though they were casting it at 5th level (i.e. 3 missiles instead of 1), the wand needs to expend 3 charges. So, a 1st level MM spell uses 1 charge and fires 1 missile, 3rd level MM spell uses 2 charges and fires 2 missiles, 5th level MM spell uses 3 charges and fires 3 missiles, 7th level MM spell would use 4 charges and fire 4 missiles, etc.

The limit on how much power can be used at one time is the caster/user who is activating the wand. In my example, the limit in power on this caster would be 3 missiles/3 charges since the activating wizard is 5th level. If a 7th level wizard wanted to use the same want, they could cause the wand to create 4 missiles, which will happen as long as the wand still has 4 charges left.

[Arduin]

I had this same question last Spring and it generated a bit of a discussion. Here is the thread for you to look over. I'm hoping the Trolls clarify this in the next printing of the M&T.

R-

I wonder if Traveller has any insight into the new printing of the M&T, vis-a-vis this topic?

[Captain_K]

Rigon &/or Traveller, There was a good thread on this in the M&T corrections line, not able to find it and surely not able to make the cool " read HERE link" like Rigon did.. but I recall that link because I had several questions on:
a) Who can make and at what level do they need to be to make each class of "spell blasting" items (scrolls, staffs, wands, rods, and even potions).
b) What level do those items function at?
c) How do you handle a staff of healing now that clerics, druids and illusionist all can cast that spell?
d) Who can use which items (should have come before c as it is an example of confusion)

[Treebore]

Here are my potion making rules, based on experience running campaigns above 20th level...

Potion Making Rules:

You can make one "batch" in a weeks time. There are two limiting factors for each batch. First, you can never make more than 10 doses per batch. The other limiting factor is how many times you can cast the given spell you are turning into a potion in a single day. So if you can cast only 4 Fly spells in a given day, you can only make 4 doses at one time. Cost is 25% of book cost to buy per dose. For spells not covered in the books, determine it with the following formula, spell level x 100 gp + 200 gp.

As for Wands and Staves, I go into plenty of detail in the thread Rigon linked.

As for Scrolls, if you can cast it, and its in your spell book, you can make a scroll, at a cost of 50 GP/spell level up to third, then at a cost of 100 GP per level there after. Since I presume the scroll spell is much like the spell in anyones spell book, the scroll is cast at the level of the user, and a SIEGE check only needs to be made if the spell is beyond the users level to cast, and then it operates at the minimum level required to cast the spell. Unless, of course, the user is a higher level. Then a SIEGE check wouldn't need to be made anyways. Writing the scroll takes the same amount of time for a spell of that level to be put into your spell book.

[Traveller]

Cap,

A is subject to the CK's discretion. In other words, it was deliberately not stated who can make particular items and what level you need to be to make those items. As for B, C, and D, the blanket statement made in my edits applies.

For challenge level purposes, it's necessary to know what level the spells in these items are cast at. What is the starting number of charges for these items? Are there any class limitations for these items?

Potions are an exception. The brewer controls the final result, meaning it's possible to have a potion of fireball created by a particular brewer that can only do 1d6 damage regardless of the brewer's level. Since the results are so variable, it's not practical to set a level in the book for potions. Thus, for a potion, it's left to the CK's discretion as to how effective a potion is.

In the case of wands, they're basically spell storage devices. I interpret this to mean the spell is cast at the wand creator's level, which is subject to CK discretion. I did mention that it was necessary to know what level the spells were cast at for wands, but given the results for a wand are just as variable as a potion, a set level for wands is impractical. A simple statement to the effect that the spells for wands are cast at the level of the creator should be more than sufficient.

A similar statement I don't believe is required for potions, because the introduction to the potion section mentions the brewer controlling the output.

[serleran]

There are, like all things C&C, several schools of thought for everything which is not explicitly provided a rule statement.

I personally prefer to randomly generate wands, scrolls, staves, and potions... unless the one they took them from is the person that made them, and then, it will be at a level of effect up to that individual's HD/level (determined randomly, weighted toward the higher end.)


For the general randomness (for wands), I might go with something like, each column checked...

d10 ... Caster Level ... Material ... Activation
1 ... 1d4 ... Balsa ... Word
2 ... 1d6 ... Pine .... Word
3 ... 1d4+2 ... Sycamore ... Word
4 ... 1d6+2 ... Oak ... Word
5 ... 1d8+2 ... Yew ... Word
6 ... 1d8+4 ... Ash ... Pointing
7 ... 1d12+2 ... Cedar ... Pointing
8 ... 1d12+4 ... Spruce ... Pointing
9 ... 1d12+6 ... Alder ... Pointing
10 ... 1d12+8 ... Elm ... Thought