Paladin, detect evil – invisible ?

[Lurker]

I've got a question that will come up in the next game.

The paladin's ability says it can detect evil in an area. Will this detect evil if they are invisible but in the area ?

Now, the why behind the question … The party has been fighting some guys that love to be invisible and then ambush from behind etc. We are going into an area that the thief has already scouted and seen that the area has another group of them in it. However, they have had time to prepare for another ambush (& go invisible).

I plan on detecting evil when I make it to the top of the stairs where I know they will be, somewhere.

In theory will it work

Of course, the official call will come from the DM, just checking here first before I try.

[AGNKim]

Yeah, sure it will work. Invisibility is a way to mask your physical appearance, some would even say it is an illusion that either bends light or tricks the mind. Either way, only the physical appearance is hidden, they are still there. As such, they will still 'radiate' evil (if that is the correct word). If they smelled horrible, you could still smell them. If they made loud noises, you'd still hear them. Same with their philosophical bent on life and ethics. It's still there.

That's how I'd rule it.

But, you still can't see them, so it is still difficult to hit or interact with them. And you can't be 100% sure if the evil you detect is them. The DM (or me) would say, "You detect some sort of evil about 30' away behind a pile of wood." Or something to that effect.

[Go0gleplex]

What Kim said.

[Rigon]

I'll wait to make a judgement. I need to read and think. But thanks for the heads up.

R-

[Arduin]

Per the spell : (you can't pinpoint, you just get the direction and know that it is within 150' X 10' wide.)

By means of this spell, the caster can sense the presence of
one specific alignment aspect (chaos, evil, good or law) in the
direction the caster is facing, along a path 150 feet long and
10 feet wide. The caster must spend one round concentrating
along the path to detect the alignment aspect, although the
caster may both cast the spell and begin detecting in the same
round as the spell is cast. Chaos radiates a wave-like aura,
whereas law’s aura is constant. Good’s aura creates pleasurable
emotion, whereas evil’s aura creates brief irritation and anger in
the caster. The strength of each aspect’s aura will be revealed as
faint, strong, or overwhelming if it is supernatural. The spell can
penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal,
a thin sheet of lead or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

[Omote]

The paladin's ability says it can detect evil in an area. Will this detect evil if they are invisible but in the area ?

Yes it will. It detects the presence of the evil, regardless of the magic on it. That is, unless there is magic to conceal it's alignment.

~O

[Aramis]

I'll wait to make a judgement. I need to read and think. But thanks for the heads up.

R-

Ixnay on the uleray uestionqays when igonRay is listening-ay!

[Rigon]

I'll wait to make a judgement. I need to read and think. But thanks for the heads up.

R-

Ixnay on the uleray uestionqays when igonRay is listening-ay!

Oh, it will keep the game moving if I don't have to look it up during the game.

R-

[Mark Hall]

I would borrow from 3.x. Yes, it will detect evil, BUT it's not a useful combat application.

You define a space (150'*10', it seems). The first round will tell you "Yes, there is evil there." The second round will let you narrow it down. A third round will let you pinpoint it. But if that evil moves in that time, you lose it... you still know its there, but not where it is, exactly.

[Rigon]

Of course, the official call will come from the DM, just checking here first before I try.

I'm thinking I will allow it to work in a general "there is evil here" kind of way. But the bad guys are still invisible, so you will have a steep penalty to hit.

R-

[Arduin]

The second round will let you narrow it down. A third round will let you pinpoint it. But if that evil moves in that time, you lose it... you still know its there, but not where it is, exactly.

That's not how it works in C&C

[Rigon]

The second round will let you narrow it down. A third round will let you pinpoint it. But if that evil moves in that time, you lose it... you still know its there, but not where it is, exactly.

That's not how it works in C&C

Pretty sure he said that it was how it worked in 3.x, not C&C. He was making a suggestion based on a rule from another game on how it "could" work, not how it works in C&C. And I could see it working like that, even by how it is written in C&C.

R-

[Arduin]

The second round will let you narrow it down. A third round will let you pinpoint it. But if that evil moves in that time, you lose it... you still know its there, but not where it is, exactly.

That's not how it works in C&C

Pretty sure he said that it was how it worked in 3.x, not C&C. He was making a suggestion based on a rule from another game on how it "could" work, not how it works in C&C. And I could see it working like that, even by how it is written in C&C.

R-

Not really. It states that it works as per the spell (the spell is detect alignment). The spell has nothing like that in it and is clearly written. A house rule but not C&C RAW by any stretch.

[Rigon]

The second round will let you narrow it down. A third round will let you pinpoint it. But if that evil moves in that time, you lose it... you still know its there, but not where it is, exactly.

That's not how it works in C&C

Pretty sure he said that it was how it worked in 3.x, not C&C. He was making a suggestion based on a rule from another game on how it "could" work, not how it works in C&C. And I could see it working like that, even by how it is written in C&C.

R-

Not really. It states that it works as per the spell (the spell is detect alignment). The spell has nothing like that in it and is clearly written. A house rule but not C&C RAW by any stretch.

Good thing I don't play RAW and since I'm the CK Lurker is speaking about, it may work like that.

R-

[Aramis]

I'll wait to make a judgement. I need to read and think. But thanks for the heads up.

R-

Ixnay on the uleray uestionqays when igonRay is listening-ay!

Oh, it will keep the game moving if I don't have to look it up during the game.

R-

Uh oh. He's cracked the code! This channel is compromised.

Switching to channel whiskey tango foxtrot

[Lurker]

I'll wait to make a judgement. I need to read and think. But thanks for the heads up.

R-

Ixnay on the uleray uestionqays when igonRay is listening-ay!

Oh, it will keep the game moving if I don't have to look it up during the game.

R-

Uh oh. He's cracked the code! This channel is compromised.

Switching to channel whiskey tango foxtrot

I don't care who you are, that's funny!

Oh, it will keep the game moving if I don't have to look it up during the game.

R-

That's an added bonus I didn't think about

Of course, the official call will come from the DM, just checking here first before I try.

I'm thinking I will allow it to work in a general "there is evil here" kind of way. But the bad guys are still invisible, so you will have a steep penalty to hit.

R-

Oh I have that covered too!

[Lurker]

Well, my plan of looking for the invisible bad guys using sense evil worked, well it did until I missed the toss of the bag of flour - poor roll on my part! See my recap for blow by blow (abridged version). It was great it worked, because it took what would have been very bad for us to walk flatfoot into the ambush.

However, today I was thinking .... would it also work under darkness .... normal &/or magical ????

My gut is no, but then if you are 'sensing' evil and not necessarily 'seeing' the source, then in theory it would work.

What do you all think?

[Arduin]

My gut is no, but then if you are 'sensing' evil and not necessarily 'seeing' the source, then in theory it would work.

What do you all think?

Per the spell that the paladin's power mimics, light doesn't matter. You see nothing in any event.

"Chaos radiates a wave-like aura,
whereas law’s aura is constant. Good’s aura creates pleasurable
emotion, whereas evil’s aura creates brief irritation and anger in
the caster. The strength of each aspect’s aura will be revealed as
faint, strong, or overwhelming if it is supernatural."

You FEEL the emanation directionally. You only know a direction 10' wide and 150' long. That is as close as you can pinpoint the source.

[AGNKim]

However, today I was thinking .... would it also work under darkness .... normal &/or magical ????

My gut is no,

I don't see why it wouldn't. Heck, invisibility and darkness are really close, you just can't see them. Again, if they smelled bad or made noises, darkness would not hide that. The only thing that would stop it would be some protection used by the target to mask or hide is alignment (Ring of Alignment Change or some such). These kind of inherent abilities that can alter a game are why it takes a paladin so long to advance and why he must, more than any class, tow the alignment line. It is really hard to be a paladin and the DM must constantly make sure he is doing what he should (must!) or he will begin to suffer.

[Lurker]

AGNK, Ardu

Thanks, I can't argue against those points .... You know, this makes the 'detect evil' ability a lot more powerful than I ever thought it was!

All of these years playing Paladins, and I've been underplaying this ability. It has changed now - Evil beware, I can see you

[Arduin]

Evil beware, I can see you

Wellll, you can feel it. Not see it.

I didn't realize its full scope until I reread the spell from the viewpoint of a paladin using it.