CK Burnout

[Julian Grimm]

How do you get over this? I find myself repeating the same ideas over and over again; as well as having the dreaded blank page staring. It has some to do with seeing my group constantly dissolve and have to start over with new players. I have taken a break from CKing with only one more demo before I become a player for awhile in a Pathfinder game at a store I go to.

While it does seem that playing has helped, I am frustrated at the lack of creativity I have had as of late.

[DMMike]

It happens. Usually I spend some time being a player to try to recharge. Another method if I still want to run a game but am out of ideas is to grab a module from somewhere and run it...suitably modified in case my players know the adventure ahead of time. This doesn't have to be a C&C module, you can grab from most any fantasy RPG and modify.

That's why I'm currently in a 2E AD&D game, though that's not my preferred gaming system. Being a player allows you to concentrate on a more narrow focus and as play progresses you can get fresh ideas for your home game.

I find myself using modules more often nowadays than ever before...partially due to time crunches but also because its easier than coming up with a whole adventure from scratch. Though thanks to my wife being on the Save or Die podcast I get access to some real first rate modules...but she's read them all for the show!


Mike

[Buttmonkey]

I struggled with pretty bad burnout a year ago when my efforts to establish a regular game kept fizzling out. I think a lot of my burnout was the product of that frustration. I did some things that helped stabilize the group and my burnout faded when we started playing regularly. So, my first piece of advice is to concentrate on stabilizing your group. Playing is much more fun when it isn't so damn frustrating.

I sometimes worry about my ability to be creative, but I always seem to come up with something. You really don't need to be amazingly creative. You just need one okay idea to seed an adventure.

Some recent examples:

1. I live in a political hot spot that was pummeled brutally with political ads for the last 6 months. It didn't take a huge leap of creativity to incorporate an election into my campaign. I mentioned a few months in advance that an election was coming up. Then a couple sessions in advance I had a city official contact the PCs about providing security for transporting the ballots to city hall from voting precincts. With one session to go before the election, I had mysterious figures offer to bribe the PCs to tamper with the ballots. Then, for the election session, I gave the PCs some options for what route they would take to transport the ballots, then hit them with 3 major encounters along the way. Was it brilliantly creative? No. But it wasn't hard to come up with and my players had fun.

2. I like gonzo, Gamma World type stuff. Thinking about that led me to think about using an intelligent plant as a nemesis (Gamma World has intelligent plant PCs). From there, I decided to go with two evil intelligent plants who are rivals. One of them would try to enlist the PCs in an attack on the other plant. Then I just had to pick some plants. I went with a giant sunflower and a giant tree. I statted out the giant sunflower with some powers (it can speak by emitting sonic waves from its face, it can shoot solar energy in a beam as a weapon, etc.). I haven't figured out what to do with the tree yet, but I am going to make it a living dungeon. The PCs will go inside the tree as part of their mission. That led to wondering how the PCs could get inside. There might be guarded entrances that they could fight or RP their way through. I liked the idea of maybe using a talisman that the tree distributes like a pass/badge. What would a tree use? I thought maybe a pine cone. Then, because I am a mean bastard, I decided the PCs would have to eat the pine cones for them to work (and suffer 1d3 damage in the process). There needs to be something inside the tree for the party to encounter/fight. What would a giant tree use to maintain its interior? Elves are an obvious and boring choice. How about dwarves? That subverts stereotypes. Now I'm working with forest dwarves. How would you move around inside the tree? Water runs up in a tree. Maybe there are shafts of moving water that the party could ride up the tree from the inside. I'm still working on it. Why would the sunflower needs the PCs help? Both plants are evil. Maybe the tree got possession of the sunflower's seeds. Kidnapping the sunflower's offspring seems nicely evil. Now the PCs will have to "rescue" the seeds. Since both plants are evil, I'll need to come up with some reason for the tree to hate the sunflower. I haven't figured out what the sunflower did yet. Since I haven't sorted everything out, let alone mapped out the tree, I sent my players on a side jaunt through a module. That will take several weeks of real time, thus allowing me the time I need to finish the tree adventure.

3. Steal, steal, steal. Rip off any good idea you hear about. Someone somewhere on the internet mentioned the idea of skeletons that have been dipped in molten metal to make them tougher. Works for me. Now I've got a bunch of metallic skeletons to work with. Where would the metallic skeletons come from? Some sort of necromancer. What would make a necromancer interesting? What if it was an even tougher metallic skeleton with magical abilities? And what it if breathed fire like a dragon? That would kick some ass. What metal would the skeletons be dipped in? Iron or steel sound appropriate for the run of the mill metallic skeletons. Maybe bronze. What about the necromancer skeleton? Maybe precious metal like gold. That wouldn't be as protective as steel, but maybe I don't care. We're talking about magic here. Maybe a golden coating on a necromantic, fire-breathing skeleton works as great armor. What else can I do to make the BBEG interesting? Maybe he craves the living flesh that has been stripped from him. Maybe he ties strips of flesh to his body to look alive (and is grossly unsuccessful, but what do you expect from an undead madman?). So, now I've got this necromancer skeleton with a bunch of metallic skeletons. They need a base. Where do evil necromancers call home? An evil temple in the middle of nowhere, of course. I'm putting across the nearby mountains in humanoid territory. A couple sessions ago I told the players a bunch of metal skeletons were slaughtering humanoid tribes to the north and now a bunch of humanoids are fleeing south of the mountains and settling in the party's city. The PCs decided they don't give a crap about a bunch of humanoids (more power to the skeletons) and are ignoring the issue. If they decide to bite at the hook soon, they can take on the temple. If they ignore it much longer, the skeletons will grow very powerful and move south of the mountains and start raiding the human and demihuman lands around the party. By then, maybe it's too late for the party to make a difference. That could result in all sorts of chaos and force the PCs in new directions to escape or get help. Lots of options spring to mind as a result of hearing about someone saying they were using skeletons dipped in metal.

4. Try to riff off what the players do. Two sessions ago, the party's wizard used a fireball scroll that accidentally killed three NPC meat shields. What can I do with that? Hmm. What if one of the meat shield's widows sued the wizard? I got the Judges Guild Ready Reference Sheets recently. That has some interesting charts for handling criminal cases in a fantasy city. Maybe I can modify those for a civil case. I knew I wanted some more time to sort that out and also to work on my tree adventure, so I told the players a process server was rumored to be hunting for the wizard. That gave a little extra push to get the PCs to leave town to tackle the module while I prep. Now I'm working with the Ready Reference Sheets to find fun ways to mess with the players. When they get back to town, the wizard will have to decide whether to bribe the court officials, hire a lawyer, etc. Going this route allows the players to feel like their actions have an impact on the game world and allows me to use the players' actions as a source of creativity.

[Go0gleplex]

I feel you Julian. Have the same problem and it's compounded by health issues that leave my motivation and ability to focus somewhat lacking. Been watching a lot of anime and reading a lot...idea mining for some stuff. Need to do some playing or what as well but that's not so easy to do. When I hit the wall 15 yrs or so ago, I switched game systems as a player for awhile. Helps.

[Rigon]

Being a player should help with the burn out. I play every other week and run a game every other week. Both in the Monday night online spot our group has been playing in for years. Also, having a stable group helps.

As for creativity, just take any idea that you think is cool, and sketch it out. I've been running the current adventure from a small idea that festered in the back of my mind for about 10 mins and I whipped out an outline of some of the things I wanted to do and bang, fun adventuring for all. You need to remember, not all adventures need to be over arcing story busters. Some can just be fun little romps through the dungeon.

R-

[Jyrdan Fairblade]

I’ll second taking a break and being a player for a bit. Even if it’s just a handful of sessions, I find seeing someone else run the game can often be inspiring in and of itself. Also, sometimes switching games can help. Maybe dealing with some vampires and eldritch horrors instead of dragons and goblins will help.

Or you could try radically altering your campaign. Maybe a plague spreads throughout the lands, or dragons invade and subjugate everyone.

Also, never underestimate the power of a good book to inspire. Whether it’s an inventive fantasy tale (Elantris or A Princess of Mars) or a book suffused with love for the game (Of Dice and Men), sometimes all it takes is a book to rekindle that fire.

[Julian Grimm]

Thanks for the tips. The Pathfinder game I have been playing in has been very fun and has helped me look at C&C in a different way. And I will say that I surprisingly enjoy the system. Just the one or two games have helped free up some juices and get motivated on a setting idea. I think a few more games and I will have something workable, though I still don't see myself running anything except the one demo I committed to. I don't see myself running anything else until after the first of the year which should help.

[Rigon]

Thanks for the tips. The Pathfinder game I have been playing in has been very fun and has helped me look at C&C in a different way. And I will say that I surprisingly enjoy the system. Just the one or two games have helped free up some juices and get motivated on a setting idea. I think a few more games and I will have something workable, though I still don't see myself running anything except the one demo I committed to. I don't see myself running anything else until after the first of the year which should help.

That's what we are here for.

R-

[serleran]

I find something I would like. For example, I was bored with Deadlands mostly because I wasn't doing it justice. So, I thought... what do I want to play? Hmm. A dwarf. I know, let's make all PCs dwarfs. And a new game was born.

[tylermo]

I'd like to play more than I do, but I'm not through spreading the C&C gospel as a CK!

[Julian Grimm]

I sat down last night and looked over all of my notes and such and came to a big decision as far as what I want to do in the future. First off I decided that one problem was that I had modified the system so much it was getting hard to remember what I was doing. So I expunged all of my house rules and decided to start over from scratch. What I will be running (when I get back in the captain's chair) will only have a small number of adjustments. For the first time in a long time I am going to go more by the book than I have.

The list of changes so far are:

1) Use the Primary, Secondary, Tertiary system from the CKG.

2) Change spell casting to a slot based system as suggested by the CKG.

3) Minor class ability changes like a Stealth ability instead of Move Silent and Hide.

4) Drop non-human ability score adjustments as the prime system does a good job with limiting Demi-Humans.

I am keeping my homebrewed monsters and converted material but will be revising a bit. Amazingly enough this helped with some of the frustration I have had and may shorten my time off. Funny enough, I found that I do want to run a game but I want free from the mess I created.

[Buttmonkey]

I haven't reviewed the slot based spell casting, but those all sound like reasonable tweaks. 3 and 4 are especially intriguing.

[Julian Grimm]

The stealth ability came from seeing it done in Pathfinder and Monte Cook's AU books and we ported it over as it made sense to us. The idea about the demi-human adjustments came when I found a +1/-1 change to scores did not mean much as it did in AD&D. However demi-humans only get two primes while humans get three with one having to be class based. This makes Demi-humans less effective than humans from the start and as they progress in levels.

[Rigon]

I sat down last night and looked over all of my notes and such and came to a big decision as far as what I want to do in the future. First off I decided that one problem was that I had modified the system so much it was getting hard to remember what I was doing. So I expunged all of my house rules and decided to start over from scratch. What I will be running (when I get back in the captain's chair) will only have a small number of adjustments. For the first time in a long time I am going to go more by the book than I have.

The list of changes so far are:

1) Use the Primary, Secondary, Tertiary system from the CKG.

2) Change spell casting to a slot based system as suggested by the CKG.

3) Minor class ability changes like a Stealth ability instead of Move Silent and Hide.

4) Drop non-human ability score adjustments as the prime system does a good job with limiting Demi-Humans.

I am keeping my homebrewed monsters and converted material but will be revising a bit. Amazingly enough this helped with some of the frustration I have had and may shorten my time off. Funny enough, I found that I do want to run a game but I want free from the mess I created.

It's funny that you mention going back to a more RAW game. I just got my house rules to a point where I like them (class changes, racial changes, how magic items work, and what not), but the higher up in level the players go, the more I think that my rules are encumbering the system. And with the new printings clarifying and expanding some of the issues I had, basically it's made a good deal of my rules redundant. I'm seriously considering running a more RAW game for my next campaign with maybe some stuff from the CKG (advantages, skills, expanded classes, and a few other things). I'm probably still quite a ways away from ending the current campaign so I have more time to ruminate on the subject. Hopefully, the new CKG printing will be out by then.

R-

[alcyone]

I sat down last night and looked over all of my notes and such and came to a big decision as far as what I want to do in the future. First off I decided that one problem was that I had modified the system so much it was getting hard to remember what I was doing.

I'm a big fan of RAW. Not only is it easier for me to remember, but the players only need their PHB. In my case another benefit is I make my players change systems so much that a house rule makes them roll their eyes as much as a system change. They still ask me what game we are playing every night. I try not to take it personally .

Now your mind is free to focus on the campaign.

I don't have a problem with Rigon and Tree's house rules; they are well thought out, centrally documented, and serve the game, but for myself, I find RAW (mostly) adequate. And RAW in C&C is not the straitjacket it is in say, Pathfinder.

[Julian Grimm]

As far as the RAW goes. I found that my house rules were partially a result of not understanding things. When I got my 5th print PHB I saw that certain things were clarified much better than they had been before and I understood the system better. Also some of it was wanting to tinker and I ended up tinkering myself into a game that was so modified it was getting to not be C&C. Looking over some of the minor changes I want to make they do not detract from the game nor do they need extensive write-ups to follow. That way the players can use the PHB and maybe a single sheet printout.

And Aergraith has it dead on, running C&C RAW is not as confining as Pathfinder or even AD&D was.

[ThrorII]

Our group has two primary go-to GM's. Me and The Other. We each tend to last 6-8 months GMing, then we get burn out and switch so the other one can play. We also switch up games. We played 3-4 months of C&C (actually my AD&D3e home brew), and then my Real Life (tm) got in the way. So The Other took over and started running Edge of the Empire. He's GM'd for about 4 months, but now his life is getting hectic, so I'll be taking over in Jan to continue with C&C/AD&D3e.

As for keeping it fresh, as was said above: Steal, steal, steal. Find it, grind the serial number off, and use it. I've run Steading of the Hill Giant and my players didn't recognize it for what it was. I replaced HG's with Ogres, put it in a forest, made it a sod n stone steading, and changed the orcs to goblins. They never knew the difference. Steal a map from one adventure and use the plot from a second.

Listen to your players. I've run nearly whole campaigns just by listening to their trying to figure out who was behind something, then picking out tidbits from their cross talk and making it be true. They were literally writing the adventure and didn't know it. They just thought they were cleaver because they figured it out.....

[Julian Grimm]

Played in a Star Wars: Edge of the Empire game last night and loved it. The dice system takes some getting used to but I want to continue in this game as well. Also spent today teaching my daughter how to play Magic: the Gathering and she got it quick as well as loves it.

I am going to be running a demo in two weeks and actually am looking forward to it. Ideas are forming and realizations are coming. One of which was that I am they guy who likes higher magic worlds and I will no longer deny that.

[Treebore]

I do much of what has already been mentioned. I alternate systems, I play and take a break from running games, I steal, use modules to inspire me, I use ideas from novels, movies, TV shows, etc... Then every few years, it gets so bad I actually take a complete break from gaming for a few months.

[serleran]

I am going to be running a demo in two weeks and actually am looking forward to it. Ideas are forming and realizations are coming. One of which was that I am they guy who likes higher magic worlds and I will no longer deny that.

That is an important, if not the most important, to not being burned out -- recognize what you enjoy and do it. However, you can't do it too much as there is such a thing as more than enough.

[Julian Grimm]

I am going to be running a demo in two weeks and actually am looking forward to it. Ideas are forming and realizations are coming. One of which was that I am they guy who likes higher magic worlds and I will no longer deny that.

That is an important, if not the most important, to not being burned out -- recognize what you enjoy and do it. However, you can't do it too much as there is such a thing as more than enough.

Yep. Right now I am looking at the proper balance for the game. With many of those interested being Magic and more modern players I have a bit more leeway in what I do than if I had more classic players.

[Treebore]

I consider myself a "Classic" D&D gamer, and I have always defaulted to "high magic". Seemed pretty obvious to me to do so considering the spells and magic items that have always been part of the game.

[Julian Grimm]

I consider myself a "Classic" D&D gamer, and I have always defaulted to "high magic". Seemed pretty obvious to me to do so considering the spells and magic items that have always been part of the game.

Good to hear. I have ran into more than a few that will balk when I talk of using airships, light forms of magi-tech and such. Which always made me scratch my head when many of them are the same guys that will jump on a 'gonzo' game that uses similar elements.

[Buttmonkey]

I'm also pretty high magic. I played in Frank Mentzer's home game for a few years and he was REALLY high magic. It rubbed off. Where's the fun in never using most of the really cool magic items in the DMG/M&T? The key is to create situations where the PCs will need or want to use their magical resources, as well as encounters that can destroy them (item saving throws when the party is hit by a fireball or lightning bolt, for example).

[Julian Grimm]

Here's the latest for those keeping score (I am also doing this for those that may be having the same issues so they can see and example of coming out of it):

Stealing/Borrowing: Coming from my recent revelation of what I want in a campaign I began borrowing ideas from other places. Interestingly enough, Magic and Eberron provided many ideas. Seeing two settings that used higher magic and how well it worked has given me a way to begin to shape a newish setting based on those ideas. I would be lying if I said I did not like the idea of 'Dungeonpunk' settings. I am going to go with that. Being honest here has helped.

As for what I am borrowing, it is more idea mining than anything. Looking at art, reading wikis and such has given me a laundry list fo what I want to do and how to adapt it. Fresh ideas are what I am after and I have found them. Though, I have started statting out the beginnings of a basic bestiary based on some of my more favorite Magic cards. Since this is not a publishing thing, I am leaving all names alone. The Myrs from M:tG are first with some other baddies being noted.

Rules: C&C is a game as is D&D. All games must have rules and while I am not saying that strict adherence to them are the way; I need to adhere closer. I made a set of pre-gens for an upcoming demo and stuck to the rules and such on them. A quick playtest of some ideas shows that I am on the right track with what I have stated I want to to about rules. ( See above posts) This has also left me to work on campaign material and not worry about problems with my former stack of rules.

The Coming Demo: Next weekend I am running a C&C demo for some that want to know more about C&C. The Demo will not only include my new take on the above but, will also show the bare bones of the setting and higher magic ideas I have had. This is pretty close to a full-on test run of everything. The funny thing is that I am very excited about this.

The game seems a bit more fresh to me, getting away from things I did not like and just did because it seemed like the right way has also helped. I have flushed a lot of crap off of me and we will see how things go from there. While not out of the woods yet, I feel that I am close to being ready to run again. Especially if I balance my time with playing in other campaigns, playing other games I like and staying honest to what I want.

[serleran]

If you like dungeonpunk, I would recommend getting / looking at the guide book for the computer game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

I would not suggest you copy much but allow it to inspire you.

Link to get you going...

[Julian Grimm]

I looked over some of it and it looks good. I may even have to track that down when I get time.

[Julian Grimm]

I ran a demo this weekend that met with some success and showed my that I am going to have little problem getting back into the saddle next year. I have decided that my new campaign will start on January 17th and will be ran a bit differently than before. I am looking at 3-4 month 'seasons' that will have a break from one to the next. Not only will this give me time to relax but it will also allow for the players to decide what to do with their characters.

I am also going to make sure I have time to continue playing in the Pathfinder game I am in as this has helped. The GM of Pathfinder is also going to possibly play in the C&C game and we have already been cross pollinating a bit between games. We even have an NPC that will have an incarnation in both settings as well as some PCs from one game having an NPC incarnation in the other. I haven't done this sort of thing in a long while and it is a blast.

[Rigon]

Glad to hear that your little break from behind the screen has help renew your creative juices.

R-

[Julian Grimm]

A break and going back to actually playing games have both helped. Between a recharge and purge of some bad thinking mixed with playing a few games has helped tremendously.