If you allow (or even if you don't) Anti-Paladins.what race

[Captain_K]

So what race would make a great anti-Paladin?

[serleran]

Dwarf.

[Lurker]

Well, back when I DMed I required it always be a good party, so it couldn't be a PC.

That said, human or half orc ... Hmmm I just pictured an evil twisted elf as one ... that would be good too.

[Treebore]

Any race capable of being Chaotic Evil. So pretty much any of them. Now you've got me creating a Halfling Anti Paladin...

[Ancalagon]

So what race would make a great anti-Paladin?

Human.

[Captain_K]

The key to them to me is "devilish"... the hidden evil.. not the reeking of evil, but the guy you've known for years.. he couldn't be evil... or the beautiful young woman could not have murdered those the whole keep.. she's just a shy little thing... don't get me wrong the obvious nasty scarred brute is fine and all...

[Lurker]

The key to them to me is "devilish"... the hidden evil.. not the reeking of evil, but the guy you've known for years.. he couldn't be evil... or the beautiful young woman could not have murdered those the whole keep.. she's just a shy little thing... don't get me wrong the obvious nasty scarred brute is fine and all...

Those are great ideas for a surprising bad guy npc. But not what pops into mind with I think 'anti-paladin'. However, until my post earlier I'd never thought of an elf anti-paladin ... so they could work.

[Tadhg]

Half-orc!

[Captain_K]

The fallen paladin, converted to a Dark Prince's power has to be the best "back story"...

[maximus]

Human for sure. The other races just don't seem to "fit" the profile.

[Arduin]

half orc

[concobar]

I wonder why a evil paladin could not be LE.

[Arduin]

I wonder why a evil paladin could not be LE.

Well, ANTI would mean the opposite... Would an ANTI-Paladin be Chaotic Good? Same difference as a LE Paladin...

[Captain_K]

The concept of Anti-Paladin seems to me most generally "in opposition". LG knight, sorry paladin, could be well opposed by a LE knight, one who strictly follows all rules, all codes of honor.. just is not good about it, tempers nothing.... while a CE would not have the law abiding behavior.... could be a great foil to the LG paladin.. but would be different in both extremes, Law and Good. I have submitted both ideas under one write up to the Trolls for hopeful publication in something such as Crusader.. but I have heard nothing in a month.. that said seems typical...

[Arduin]

The concept of Anti-Paladin seems to me most generally "in opposition".

In opposition to which alignment?

[Captain_K]

I just meant "opposite of the paladin" not just his alignment.. focusing solely on the alignment is one way to view it and is typically done in this manner.. my thought was that the opposition need not be law to chaos just good to evil. A LE anti-paladin could have codes, rules and function in society filled with good folks especially LG folks because he would never break the rules, he would always "follow the rules".

[Arduin]

A LE anti-paladin could have codes, rules and function in society filled with good folks especially LG folks because he would never break the rules, he would always "follow the rules".

Many of the basic laws in society are opposed to evil behavior. So, would not work out that way.

[Captain_K]

Don't really agree, name some laws that say you must be good, you must share you treasure, you must help the weak, you must feed the poor, etc.? You may not kill, well unless you honor is insulted, you may not covet or steal your neighbor's stuff, well unless you find a way to "fight them" and win it all as a "right of combat or conquest"... no I do not agree, that is the evil who is lawful.. they give lip service to all the "nice bits" of society but follow and "twist" all the rules to their evil ends.. I see no reason this could not work.. keep in mind, folks see right through all this BS and know the guy is evil, they just cannot pin it to him right away.. eventually he'll get his in the end.. or so they will claim.. such is the court's bastard or black knight... follows all the laws, but really is not a nice guy...

[Go0gleplex]

Dwarf.

Yup. I have a great piece of art that inspired a dwarf anti-paladin villain that I'll someday maybe get to capitalize on.

[Geoffrey McKinney]

Human for sure. The other races just don't seem to "fit" the profile.

I agree.

[Arduin]

Don't really agree,

I'll say it again. Many of the laws in society make it illegal to commit EVIL acts of almost innumerable kinds (and they were MORE numerous in medieval times). Murder, theft, fraud, rape, arson, torture, NOT attending Church, et al. Do you REALLY not know this?

What evil acts do you think he could commit WHILE following ALL laws?

[Lurker]

Don't really agree,

I'll say it again. Many of the laws in society make it illegal to commit EVIL acts of almost innumerable kinds (and they were MORE numerous in medieval times). Murder, theft, fraud, rape, arson, torture, NOT attending Church, et al. Do you REALLY not know this?

What evil acts do you think he could commit WHILE following ALL laws?

Killing a slave out of hand - and paying a small fine to the owner, Kidnaping a girl, and forcefully 'marrying' her regardless of her desires, the ability of a noble to require a night of fun from a newly married girl,

For more recent times ... rounding up peoples - Jews, gays, gypsies and politically unacceptable if in Germany, Slavic politically unacceptable, anyone deemed an enemy of the state if Russian, Christian Jew or the wrong flavor Muslim in modern Middle east - putting them into camps, then killing them.

All are/were lawful according to their laws, but I'd argue they are evil. Even back in ancient Greece, there was the argument that does one have to follow an evil law or an evil ruler ....

Should laws be good and based on good just rule, yes. In reality, they are not ...

[Captain_K]

I was going for what Lurker put so well.. This LE guy will commit genocide with a smile, following all the laws of the land. He will "murder" legally, seize property "owed him for back taxes" and for sure NOT help the homeless or the starving.... obviously just like lawful good is not lawful stupid, chaotic evil or lawful evil trying to survive in a largely "good" society would not be stupid about it... keep in mind my LE bad guy would be right up front insisting the laws on murder be followed, that if you don't pray the right way to the right gods you get burned at the stake... he's an evil bastard, not an evil idiot who the town recognized and kills in the first encounter... does that make sense? I'm not trying to be belligerent, just my "good and evil" might be a bit different than yours...

Now with magic detection of evil... and if the guy doing the detecting is "licensed to kill all evil" my bad guy might need to have some magic shielding of his own... or he's toast!

[Lurker]

...? I'm not trying to be belligerent, just my "good and evil" might be a bit different than yours...

...

I should add that to my statement too ... I may have come of more harsh than I meant to

CK rgr on that version of LE. Especially if he is in a position of power. Then he will make sure the laws are harsh, for others but have a loop hole for him and those close to him.