HD derived from race

[jdizzy001]

This is a tangent from a different thread regarding cleric hp. I am intrigued by the idea of hd by race as opposed to class and would like to hear your ideas.

I was thinking
Half orc d12
Dwarf d10
Human/ half elf d8
Elf/ half elf d6
Halfling/gnome d4

Perhaps a 1 hd step bonus for certain classes, for example an elf choosing to be a str class (ranger, paladin, barbarian, fighter, etc) would be a d8 instead of a d6, or a human electing to be an illusionist would step down to a d6. Just generating conversation, what do you think?

[Rigon]

I like those, but I would go with what is in the M&T for racial hit die as the base. Then you could use the step for class.

R-

[Treebore]

Yeah, I've never been able to buy into the pure race=HD idea nearly as well as I could the class determining your HD. This hybrid idea, though, I think I could get on board for.

[serleran]

If the end goal is to encourage racial archetypes, such as the dwarf fighter or dwarf cleric, then there are three main options:

1) make these selections more advantageous
2) restrict the options

C&C does not like option 2, by design.

This means that the racial HD are likely to be lower so that choosing a "friendly" class gives some benefit, if that was the intent.

Of course, there is also option 3) -- race as class, with different XP and so forth based on the "paths" the player can select. It also allows an easy combined "class and a half" without having to tweak too many existing rules.

In the end, it has to be determined what the net effect is supposed to be. Then, generate to that result.

[Captain_K]

As noted above the MT has all PC races at d8. There is some interpolation in that statement, but core PH races are d8. Kind of how I recall the "man in the street". The goal, IMHO, is the PC races start out kind of even with some pluses and minuses given by score modifiers and "powers", but nothing drastic. Its fantasy, a little hobbit can do amazing things... Per your notes above a Gnome Illusionist would get d2 HD.. that of a house cat. When you watched the movies of the hobbit the dwarf was a bit slower, but kept up, the hobbits carried stuff and did their share, etc. So I consider the PC races, "the same thing" with all the limits and bonuses "for story only" or "for fun play only" not ways to make 1/2 Orcs the superior race and gnomes unplayable. As much as one of the DnD
editions was annoying overall... giving the smaller races +2 to AC almost made up for the other "little person" problems not the least of which was slow movement.

How about this house rule: Starting HP is one racial dice and one class dice. This is your base HP and twice that number into the negatives is death. You can make these first two HD roles as you see fit. CON bonus is only applied to the class dice. Each level there after is based solely on class. Really the race dice is much like zero level. I would only use d6, d8 and d10 for the races OR do it simply by body mass.

Again, just my two cents, I work to allow all PC races on an even footing for game play and fun, not find ways to make winners or losers in the "mass game". Just my opinion and I KNOW it is not real, it is not realistic, and the gnome would get killed in a bar fight with 230# half orcs... but wait, this is a fantasy game... so he cleverly uses bar stools and table legs to his advantage and its a fair fight because he's a 17 STR, 9th level monk... wow if that don't drive you nuts in the world of fantasy I don't know what will... ;}

[Lurker]

It goes without saying I like Serl's option 3 with RCCs ... Now someone that is better than me at making classes needs to writ them up ...

[Rigon]

It goes without saying I like Serl's option 3 with RCCs ... Now someone that is better than me at making classes needs to writ them up ...

They're coming in the Players book for Airhde.

R-

[Lurker]

It goes without saying I like Serl's option 3 with RCCs ... Now someone that is better than me at making classes needs to writ them up ...

They're coming in the Players book for Airhde.

R-

That I did not know ... I guess I'm spending even more money ...

[Arduin]

Not really fitting for above 1st level when considering HP in C&C. I could see it as a base HP then by class for subsequent levels.

[mbeacom]

Not really fitting for above 1st level when considering HP in C&C. I could see it as a base HP then by class for subsequent levels.

I was thinking the same thing. Unless somehow they have racial "advancement"? Like somehow they raise their Dwarf level up one? Otherwise, any advancement from base would be in a class HD would be my thoughts.

[serleran]

Considered a 4th option:

Race and class determines initial HD, and those gained to a certain level like one is accustomed to, but unfavorable combinations have a low cap. Once the level cap is met, the character gains only the class's "name level benefit".

For example, dwarf might favor cleric and fighter, giving d10 to 9th level. Dwarf wizard might give d6 for 4 levels, then +1 every level thereafter.

Along these same lines is the Gamma World method -- the race and class choice give a number of HD to roll. HP are not gained, ever, without magic being involved. So, that dwarf fighter or cleric might get 8d12 and the dwarf wizard gets 6d6.

Again, it really depends what desired result is intended to be. They all have advantages and flaws.

[jdizzy001]

As noted above the MT has all PC races at d8. There is some interpolation in that statement, but core PH races are d8. Kind of how I recall the "man in the street". The goal, IMHO, is the PC races start out kind of even with some pluses and minuses given by score modifiers and "powers", but nothing drastic. Its fantasy, a little hobbit can do amazing things... Per your notes above a Gnome Illusionist would get d2 HD.. that of a house cat. When you watched the movies of the hobbit the dwarf was a bit slower, but kept up, the hobbits carried stuff and did their share, etc. So I consider the PC races, "the same thing" with all the limits and bonuses "for story only" or "for fun play only" not ways to make 1/2 Orcs the superior race and gnomes unplayable. As much as one of the DnD
editions was annoying overall... giving the smaller races +2 to AC almost made up for the other "little person" problems not the least of which was slow movement.

How about this house rule: Starting HP is one racial dice and one class dice. This is your base HP and twice that number into the negatives is death. You can make these first two HD roles as you see fit. CON bonus is only applied to the class dice. Each level there after is based solely on class. Really the race dice is much like zero level. I would only use d6, d8 and d10 for the races OR do it simply by body mass.

Again, just my two cents, I work to allow all PC races on an even footing for game play and fun, not find ways to make winners or losers in the "mass game". Just my opinion and I KNOW it is not real, it is not realistic, and the gnome would get killed in a bar fight with 230# half orcs... but wait, this is a fantasy game... so he cleverly uses bar stools and table legs to his advantage and its a fair fight because he's a 17 STR, 9th level monk... wow if that don't drive you nuts in the world of fantasy I don't know what will... ;}

I should have clarified that hd size would bottom out at d4 and cap out at d12, this would avoid the whole d2 hobbit wizard and d20 orc barbarian. You could go the other way too, keep hd tied to class and give the step bonus to certain races.

[Daniel]

Just came across this thread. I love the idea of a race based impact to HP for first but as Arduin said...

I could see it as a base HP then by class for subsequent levels.

This would, IMO, reflect how the class impacts your future HP but your race gave you a basic "starting point".