Encumbrance Value for Worn Items

[Melkor]

Is the encumbrance value reduced in any way for worn items (like clothing or armor)?

I know that worn capacity items like backpacks don't count the items that fit inside them.

Thanks.

[Captain_K]

Yep.. there is a value for worn and not, if "w" is there the item is already assumed to be worn... aka armor, boots, gauntlets.. that said, the delta is like 1 or 2 EV, but I could not find the note stating EV when a worn item is carried. But I'll tell you from a recent personal experience a 40# weight vest is a pain to carry about and put on and off but not too bad once actually on and fitted well... unless you're doing pushups then it just plain sucks.. but that is the basic idea.

But your base number is your STR and possibly a bit more.. its tough by the book to carry much unless you have STR &/or CON as a prime and a pretty good STR. Most folks usually house rule the heck out of encumbrance or ignore it, most or many PCs hate to be bothered by it..

Personally I make each PC read off all their junk or better still sketch (stick figure is fine) their PC and all possessions. Then the group with the CK decide on level of encumbrance. No detailed book keeping involved.

[Melkor]

I didn't see a note in the 6th printing on what the (w) actually means when worn. So you are saying worn items (when worn) only count as 1 or 2 EV?

[Warunsun]

Is the encumbrance value reduced in any way for worn items (like clothing or armor)?

I know that worn capacity items like backpacks don't count the items that fit inside them.

Thanks.

C&C is designed to be house ruled. I honestly recommend that you throw out the entire EV system and use something else. You will be happier.

[Captain_K]

I'm saying when the EV value is noted and there is a (w) after the entry it means that is the EV value when worn. It would be a higher value than that if you carried the item about in your arms I would guess by 1 or 2 points or as much as twice. Does that make sense?

The EV system is indeed a bit messy and many avoid it, its pretty book keepish, but some players like that sort of thing, but don't drop it until you try it.

[Arduin]

I just "eyeball" it. If someone tries to do something outlandish like carry 5,000 gp (500 lbs.) out of a dungeon on their back I just tell them, "No.".

[Tadhg]

I'm an "eyeball" slash "common sense" CK with regard to EN. But, I'll say this, Kayo and our online group trying to do btb had a 2 hour session going over EN/EV with a fine tooth comb. It was really fun and challenging!

The key, as most CK's know ~ PCs must have utilize backpacks, or shoulderpacks, and/or sacks.

And as mentions above, note items which can be hung/worn/slung, etc.

And then, finally - into combat . . . PCs will drop packs and sacks so they will not suffer penalties.

[Captain_K]

Too much encumbrance? That's why they breed mules or hire henchmen aka "pack bearers"... you don't have to out run the hungry monster, just your overloaded pack bearer ;}

[Tadhg]

Heh, don't forget. At 1st or even 2nd level - PCs most likely cannot afford mules or haha, "pack bearers". Another reason for CKs to pay attention to GPs, EN, rations and what the PCs put (or don't list) on their char sheets!!

[tylermo]

The "w" went away in the 5th printing when the EV rules were changed. They mysteriously popped up again in 6th printing. I spotted it early into the print run, and the trolls are aware. Ignore the w's.

[Captain_K]

The w does give a hint that the EV is when worn and likely more when not... if I recall correctly all "calculated" EV values ask you to take into account not just mass or weight but bulk, size and unbalance into the rating.. the old 20# weighted vest of metal vs the 20# bag of goose feathers.. the later is much more EV and harder to carry about..

They dropped the w why?

[Arduin]

Heh, don't forget. At 1st or even 2nd level - PCs most likely cannot afford mules or haha, "pack bearers". Another reason for CKs to pay attention to GPs, EN, rations and what the PCs put (or don't list) on their char sheets!!

Yup. I never advise PC's. I let them find out where the "potholes" of life are for them selves.

[Captain_K]

The PC would, if actually trying to carry to much find it out instantly... possibly upon trying to leave the "adventurer's outfitter shop" that all that cool stuff they could barely afford weighs a ton...

[Captain_K]

And starting gold usually limits the PC prior to weight or encumbrance does..

[Daniel]

Yup. I never advise PC's. I let them find out where the "potholes" of life are for them selves.

Overall I agree with this point of view. As a GM I do remind players of things that would be obvious to their players, but beyond that I let them figure out things on their own.

As for the purchase of a mule, I have had a few parties combine their cash to buy a "party mule" until they could buy their own. I didn't mind because I saw this as their beginning to see themselves as a team rather than as a loose group of individuals.

EDIT: I realized my newbie is showing. Still think of myself as a GM not a CK.

[Captain_K]

GM.. what's that? You me DM... accept no substitutes.

[Tadhg]

GM.. what's that? You me DM... accept no substitutes.

Uhh, you mean CK! Accept no subsitutes!

Heh, just kidding. I use CK and DM interchangeably, but have never used GM.

Years ago, referee and judge were used, but I didn't use them.

[Tadhg]

And starting gold usually limits the PC prior to weight or encumbrance does..

Not at all. It's my experience that PCs spend every copper when outfitting themselves and it's usually armor and weapons. That's why I don't think they can afford a mule!

[Kayolan]

And starting gold usually limits the PC prior to weight or encumbrance does..

Not at all. It's my experience that PCs spend every copper when outfitting themselves and it's usually armor and weapons. That's why I don't think they can afford a mule!

Plus let's face it, a mule only works if you are able to protect that mule, it's no good in the underworld. That's not to say it's always useless, but only reliable in certain situations, such as long overland travel. Protecting the mule while underground usually also means you have to hire people, another expense (and possibly another liability).

[Daniel]

GM.. what's that? You me DM... accept no substitutes.

Uhh, you mean CK! Accept no subsitutes!

Heh, just kidding. I use CK and DM interchangeably, but have never used GM.

Years ago, referee and judge were used, but I didn't use them.

Used DM for D&D and GM for just about all the other game rule sets. Traveler, TW2000, Morrow Project, Fantasy Trip, Shadowrun, etc. I even admit to using GM when discussing Pathfinder because while based on D&D, it still wasn't.

I will try and remember CK going forward though.

[Daniel]

Plus let's face it, a mule only works if you are able to protect that mule, it's no good in the underworld. That's not to say it's always useless, but only reliable in certain situations, such as long overland travel. Protecting the mule while underground usually also means you have to hire people, another expense (and possibly another liability).

This was one of the things that told me the players understood the game was a cooperative game. Those who were just out for themselves often quickly forgot to protect the mule or the backs of their other party members for that matter.

[Arduin]

And starting gold usually limits the PC prior to weight or encumbrance does..

Not at all. It's my experience that PCs spend every copper when outfitting themselves and it's usually armor and weapons. That's why I don't think they can afford a mule!

Plus let's face it, a mule only works if you are able to protect that mule, it's no good in the underworld. That's not to say it's always useless, but only reliable in certain situations, such as long overland travel. Protecting the mule while underground usually also means you have to hire people, another expense (and possibly another liability).

Lines of communications and logistics. The bane of adventurers who play in a Sandbox world with a sharp CK!

[Andrew]

I prefer leniency and "eyeballing" to an extent, but if ever there is a need, I tend to just follow a weight scheme.

Weight (in lbs.)

0 lbs. to STR x 10 lbs.: No Encumbrance, Full Movement
STR x 10 lbs. to STR x 20 lbs.: Encumbered, Half Movement
STR x 20 lbs. to STR x 30 lbs.: Very Encumbered, 1/10 Movement
Above STR x 30 lbs.: Extremely Encumbered, No Movement

These run the weights up on what someone can typically carry comfortably, but it is easy to remember. But hey, they're adventurers anyways and they've got loot to haul and weapons to swing. And it's not like they'd be carrying a 1000 lbs. or something stupid under this system.

It also allows me the room to still say "Yeah, that 50 lb. chest keeps you unencumbered, but it's bulky and is still gonna mess with ya." I'd also tend to impose exhaustion penalties for being encumbered over a period of days since these weight limits are "high".

[Daniel]

It also allows me the room to still say "Yeah, that 50 lb. chest keeps you unencumbered, but it's bulky and is still gonna mess with ya." I'd also tend to impose exhaustion penalties for being encumbered over a period of days since these weight limits are "high".

I think the chest is a great example of why encumbrance needs to be more than just weight. A 50 pound chest carried in my hands has a very different impact on me that, say a 50 pound back-pack. Both are 50 pounds but one should be encumbering me more IMO.

[serleran]

Encumbrance is a cheap shot to restrict the players. Don't give them so much stuff.




Or, let animal friendship work on a pack mule...

[Warunsun]

The EV system is indeed a bit messy and many avoid it, its pretty book keepish, but some players like that sort of thing, but don't drop it until you try it.

We used it for two months of game play. After four sessions I was still needing to explain it over and over again. I knew it needed to go.

[tylermo]

As for removing the w's, that"s probably a question for Josh Chewning or whoever revamped encumbrance for 5th printing. I assume they decided that armor would count for the full amount, and that characters would be given a break by giving backpacks and shoulder packs capacity to offset the added EV of other carried items. Either way, just ignore the w's (in parentheses) in the 6th printing. They were taken out in the 5th printing. However if you like the halved when worn rule, just go with it.