[attributes & skills] Am I reading things wrong?

[DaveyB]

From reading the PHB (2nd printing), I take it to mean that to resolve anything, it goes like TETSNBN's resolution in that you roll against a CC and if you equal or beat that # after mods and what-not, then you're successful, correct?

The Challenge Class (CC) formula is: challenge base + challenge level

So say for example, a 2nd level fighter with strength bonus of +2 tries to pick up a large rock. The CK decides that this is an especially heavy rock so he makes the CL a 3. So the CC would be a 15 (12 + 3). Now the fighter rolls a d20, gets a 10, and adds in his level and strength bonus, so he gets: 14 (10 + 2 from level + 2 strength bonus), thus not lifting the rock. This is the correct resolution, right?

The reason I ask, is because in the example of play listed in the back of the book where the rogue is trying to hide from the worg, it does things differently. "Una" is 6th level, has a dex bonus of 3, and dex is prime. Therefore, she has a +9 to whatever she rolls on the d20. In the example, she rolls an 11, resulting in a 20. The CC in the example appears to only be a 6 (4 from the worg's level +2 from the sniff ability which isn't even listed in the creature's stat block). It goes on to say that Una beat her CB by 8 (CB of 12 for dex being prime), which is greater than the worg's 6, thus she has succeeded. This flies in the face of what is printed earlier, as it doesn't add in the CB to the 6 for the CC. Shouldn't it have been like this:

CC for worg: 12 + 4 + 2 = 18

Una: 6 + 3 + whatever she rolls on a d20 to try and overcome or equal the 18; or am I totally not understanding the concept of the Siege engine?

[Orpheus]

Well, the result is the same it's just that the description of the process seems a little muddled. In the description in the back the 6 is the Challenge Level and 12 is the Challenge Base. Una rolled (after modifiers) a 20 so you can look at two different ways: She beat her CB of 12 by 8 (20-12= 8 ), so the difference of her roll above the challenge base can be applied to the CL of 6 (which she beats with an 8 ). Most everyone just adds the CB and the CL to get the CC (pick up that guitar and a talk me! ). I think that the description as given in the back of the book was just to show how it all breaks down and not just toss out arbitrary numbers. Just reread it and run your own solo playtest. It'll stick after that. 8)

[DaveyB]

Quote:
Well, the result is the same it's just that the description of the process seems a little muddled. In the description in the back the 6 is the Challenge Level and 12 is the Challenge Base. Una rolled (after modifiers) a 20 so you can look at two different ways: She beat her CB of 12 by 8 (20-12= 8 ), so the difference of her roll above the challenge base can be applied to the CL of 6 (which she beats with an 8 ). Most everyone just adds the CB and the CL to get the CC (pick up that guitar and a talk me! Laughing ). I think that the description as given in the back of the book was just to show how it all breaks down and not just toss out arbitrary numbers. Just reread it and run your own solo playtest. It'll stick after that. Cool

Okay, so then I *was* correct and am not going crazy.

[Treebore]

Nope, your not crazy. In fact, after you get it worked out I bet you'll like it a lot. The difficulty is figuring out when character levels should and should not be added. I use the class description and the skills list from 3E for the respective classes to guide me.

If its a class ability or on the skills list I have it be TN 12 and allow levels to be added. Otherwise TN 18 and no levels are added.

[DaveyB]

Quote:
Nope, your not crazy. In fact, after you get it worked out I bet you'll like it a lot. The difficulty is figuring out when character levels should and should not be added. I use the class description and the skills list from 3E for the respective classes to guide me.

I like it alot already. Although my guys regular guys that I play with wouldn't (one third level is the same as another third level ), my other friends who can barely grasp the concept of an RPG, let alone have never played one before, heard me talking about D&D and are now curious about it so they want me to run an adventure. I figured C&C would be perfect as it's easily grasped and characters can be rolled up in about 10 minutes or so. Perfect for this most likely of one-shots.

[Treebore]

Well the good thing is if it turns into a long term game the rules are strong enough to support a long campaign.

One thing I greatly enjoy, besides the great base mechanic, is that I feel like I am really crafting the campaign again. Something important that I lost with running 3E.

[DaveyB]

Quote:
One thing I greatly enjoy, besides the great base mechanic, is that I feel like I am really crafting the campaign again. Something important that I lost with running 3E.

3e is too rules heavy in the sense that with all of the rules, it leaves vary little leeway for imagination, as everything is pretty much spelled out for you. Players don't have to think about how to do things, they can just pick from a list of skills and feats and be done with it. Why do I need a feat to tell me I can swing my sword in a circle (whirlwind attack) to hit enemies? Why do I need a skill called climb or balance when there are already attributes that handle those (strength and dexterity).

People will argue that the skills and feats flesh out a character, but I disagree. Isn't that where imagination comes in? About the only thing that 3e did right was setting a unified mechanic for the system. At least in my opinion.

[Treebore]

I am pretty sure many of us, if not most, feel very much the same way.

[Lurker]

DavyB

I completely agree with you.

I'm new to C&C also but have quickly found it a breath of fresh air! No list of 1000 feats to stack & get the max bonus from.

Enjoy & good luck with the new players!
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