Ol' man Grognard Talks C&C

[SmokestackJones]

Hey guys,

Here's the newest episode of my video series. This one I gus...uh, talk about Castles and Crusades. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fokHsMxBmeA

-SJ

[alcyone]

Nice video. I'm glad you're having fun with the game. It certainly seems to work as a Rosetta Stone, at least for 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, since we play online games using adventures and settings written for those. The amount of work to adjust is simple enough to do on the fly, and the monsters and magic items don't usually need much tinkering.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Bluffside. It is riding my shelf but hasn't gotten any table time yet.

[Treebore]

I've used it as a "Rosetta Stone" for OD&D through to and including 4E adventures (Goodman Games Punjar series). I have yet to actually do so for 5E, but I have played 5E, for about 7 months now, wrapping that up next week, and I am confident I can convert 5E to C&C pretty darn easily as well.

I mean, how hard can it be, when to convert it to C&C, all you really need to look at is the HD/Level? The rest of it is important, yes, but the HD/Level tells you how well they hit, how well they save, and how well they can pull off skill type rolls. From there, you decide what attributes are M or P if a monster, if a playable race, you determine which attributes are Primes. Then I convert the AC, and see if the HP are in line with the power level of C&C, adjusting as needed. Usually I am done at that point, unless I want to turn a feat into an ability, or a skill as a monster or Class Skill for my version of it. Thats usually it, unless the creature has Magic Resistance.

Not hard at all. I can do it just looking at stat blocks now. Unless I am converting from 3E or 4E I don't even have to write anything down, I find it to be so easy.

Also your comment about the flip book pricing compared to the individual books was wrong as far as full retail goes. The new Full color PRINTINGS, not editions, are $30 each, so $60 total. The Black and White flip book is far cheaper, especially if you get the Convention deal of 50% off. So in either scenario, buying the full color books is twice as much as the flip book. Now before they went to full color, your statement would have been much closer to being accurate, especially in the first 3 printings of the PH, because I think Steve kept the PH at $20 until the 4th printing, which I believe went up to $25, with the full colors now being $30.

[SmokestackJones]

I've used it as a "Rosetta Stone" for OD&D through to and including 4E adventures (Goodman Games Punjar series). I have yet to actually do so for 5E, but I have played 5E, for about 7 months now, wrapping that up next week, and I am confident I can convert 5E to C&C pretty darn easily as well.

I mean, how hard can it be, when to convert it to C&C, all you really need to look at is the HD/Level? The rest of it is important, yes, but the HD/Level tells you how well they hit, how well they save, and how well they can pull off skill type rolls. From there, you decide what attributes are M or P if a monster, if a playable race, you determine which attributes are Primes. Then I convert the AC, and see if the HP are in line with the power level of C&C, adjusting as needed. Usually I am done at that point, unless I want to turn a feat into an ability, or a skill as a monster or Class Skill for my version of it. Thats usually it, unless the creature has Magic Resistance.

Not hard at all. I can do it just looking at stat blocks now. Unless I am converting from 3E or 4E I don't even have to write anything down, I find it to be so easy.

Also your comment about the flip book pricing compared to the individual books was wrong as far as full retail goes. The new Full color PRINTINGS, not editions, are $30 each, so $60 total. The Black and White flip book is far cheaper, especially if you get the Convention deal of 50% off. So in either scenario, buying the full color books is twice as much as the flip book. Now before they went to full color, your statement would have been much closer to being accurate, especially in the first 3 printings of the PH, because I think Steve kept the PH at $20 until the 4th printing, which I believe went up to $25, with the full colors now being $30.

Yeah, sorry. I had the feeling the price points were off, especially considering the B/W vs. color (I try to research this stuff beforehand but things still fall through the cracks - I tend to get a bit hyper when recording, even with notes in front of me, like calling them "editions", etc.)

Also, how do you adjust C&C for your play? You use skills? What kind of house rules do you have?

You say you convert the AC for earlier editions. I have an AC conversion chart I found and use to convert descending to ascending. I tried converting a Basic D&D goblin, then referenced the same AC in Monster and Treasure. I noticed the M&T goblin is a bit tougher (AC 15 vs. AC 13, which I got). Is that true across the board? HD type aside, are C&C monsters tougher than their Basic, 1st and 2nd Edition D&D cousins?

-SJ

[Omote]

It's pretty funny watching your video regarding C&C. It reminds me, now some 12+ years after it's release, C&C is not fading away into some retro-clone abyss. C&C is not a fading game where once it was hyper-popular and now with a new version and a bunch of new rules, people are abandoning it for other games. C&C has remained the course, with minor corrections here and there, but it's still at full sail. In fact, it seems that C&C, albeit slowly, keeps picking up speed. More and more jump ship to other systems, only to come back to the simplicity, and streamlined accessibility of the game.

I'm glad you mentioned the Bluffside supplement too. It's really a great setting, with nice chunks of detail that make it pretty unique. Unfortunately it seems to be overlooked. The cover of that book is freaking gorgeous too! I look forward to your next videos that discuss Bluffside and perhaps it's inclusion in to the C&C game.

~O

[pawndream]

Also, how do you adjust C&C for your play? You use skills? What kind of house rules do you have?

You say you convert the AC for earlier editions. I hace an AC conversion chart I found and use to convert descending to ascending. I tried converting a Basic D&D goblin, then referenced the same AC in Monster and Treasure. I noticed the M&T goblin is a bit tougher (AC 15 vs. AC 13, which I got). Is that true across the board? HD type aside, are C&C monsters tougher than their Basic, 1st and 2nd Edition D&D cousins?

-SJ

I have used monsters straight out of all editions, with very little conversion. For 3e/PF monsters, I generally ignore any pluses they get to HD...so a 3d8+4 creature just becomes 3d8...or not. Maybe for a tougher monster, I keep the 3d8+4. It's really more of a feel thing and less about the underlying math. I generally don't worry about mechanics and just use whatever strikes my fancy and what will make for an entertaining encounter.

I think most conversion really comes down to GM's best judgment for what is right for their particular group.

I don't really use skills, but I do allow players to tell me what their character is skilled in and they can annotate that on their character sheet. Then, I treat any attempt to accomplish those kinds of tasks as a prime ability and the player rolls against the relevant stat.

Also, for class based skills and abilities (i.e., something they get as a result of being a particular class)...I treat all of those as primes, for the purposes of determining success or failure. This solves much bemoaned issues, such as Rogues being ineffective at perception (Wis) based skills.

Otherwise, I have very few house rules and generally run the game pretty much as stated in the PHB.

[alcyone]

You say you convert the AC for earlier editions. I hace an AC conversion chart I found and use to convert descending to ascending. I tried converting a Basic D&D goblin, then referenced the same AC in Monster and Treasure. I noticed the M&T goblin is a bit tougher (AC 15 vs. AC 13, which I got). Is that true across the board? HD type aside, are C&C monsters tougher than their Basic, 1st and 2nd Edition D&D cousins?

When converting, remember that in AD&D, no armor is AC 10. In BECMI D&D, no armor is AC 9. So subtract from 20 to convert an AD&D armor class, but from 19 for a BECMI armor class.

[Treebore]

You say you convert the AC for earlier editions. I hace an AC conversion chart I found and use to convert descending to ascending. I tried converting a Basic D&D goblin, then referenced the same AC in Monster and Treasure. I noticed the M&T goblin is a bit tougher (AC 15 vs. AC 13, which I got). Is that true across the board? HD type aside, are C&C monsters tougher than their Basic, 1st and 2nd Edition D&D cousins?

When converting, remember that in AD&D, no armor is AC 10. In BECMI D&D, no armor is AC 9. So subtract from 20 to convert an AD&D armor class, but from 19 for a BECMI armor class.

Pretty much, but in 3E and later AC's can get pretty crazy, especially at higher level, so those I simply adjust as I see fit to fit within what I have the power level of C&C at. Mine is on the high side, since I use the 2E Monster Manual as my general guide for the power level I want in my monsters. So if your going by pure M&T power levels/toughness, you would want to adjust things even a little lower. So generally I will keep things under AC 30 at 10th level, AC 40 around 15th level, and I have never really gone above AC 40 even for my 18th level game. Just to be clear, I don't give thsoe high AC's to everything, just what I want to be the tough encounters. In general, encounters I want to go relatively easy will be 5 to 10 points of AC below those maximum's.

[maximus]

Good stuff SJ. Appreciate the reminder about Bluffside. That one is next on my purchase list!

[Tadhg]

I watched 4 minutes but had to stop to begin my game tonight.

Anyway, pretty darn good.

Will finish tomorrow!