A smart good spider

[Lurker]

Inspiration comes from an odd place and nature, it hit me today …

I was spraying around my house to kill the wasps – got to love country living in Oklahoma … as I was getting ready to spray a group of dirt dobber’s nests I noticed something move above it. A big black hunter spider (not sure of the actual name of its type). Me being me decided to see what it was doing (and use it as an excuse to stand in the shade a bit).

When a dirt dobber would fly by it would stand still. If it landed and went into it’s nest the spider would crawl down to right above the hole to the dobber’s nest. When the wasp would start to crawl out, the spider would attack and bite it before it could fly – the wasp couldn’t sting it because it was still half in the nest. After it bit the wasp, it would let it drop down to the ground and go back up to the shadows. After 3 or 4 wasps, it crawled down and got them off the ground and drug them to it’s den.

The nature science geek in me just thought it was cool to see. But then, the gamer in me did the ‘Hmmm what if” process. How could this feed into a game scenario?

Oh yeah, as the spider was killing wasps, I see it as good, so any scanerio would use it as such – despite the normal negative view of spiders..

I have a few ideas, but nothing solid. How would you all incorporate it?

[Galadrin]

The old computer game Exile: Escape from the Pit had a clan of happy, friendly giant spiders. They were visually identical to the evil "Arachnea" giant spiders except for their squeaky, high pitched voices and indefatigably chipper attitude.

[Captain_K]

Giant wasps, spiders, crabs, etc. I would think are simply Neutral "animals" of giant size. They would still be neutral animals doing their thing to survive. If they got "intellegent" then I would think you could add alignment to their actions. C. J. Cherryh had some interesting "animals" that were smart and their ethics and behaviors were very strange and foreign so their "good and evil" would be very hard for human's to understand. That is in itself possibly a cool idea, make your "good" spiders, "good" but only in general with very strange behaviors, social customs and rules.

Ex.: All males mate with the female and all males guard the young.. because it could be theirs... all females come in three sects or sub classes.. each with their own special abilities and areas of culture, warfare, and domestic duties... etc. etc. make some very odd behaviors.. they always eat their own stongest to the weakest to eat (to strengthen the race), etc. etc.

Have them be moderate INT but high WIS and low CHA?

Giant Trap Door Spider is cool. Size changing powers? Venom that enslaves or charms the bitten and permits the victim to understand empathetically the spiders and makes them willing servants.. Kind of like a mass conversion attempt.. human and spider communes in symbiotic relationships.... got to love those nimble fingered little hairless apes...

[Penny-Whistle]

Inspiration comes from an odd place and nature, it hit me today …

I was spraying around my house to kill the wasps – got to love country living in Oklahoma … as I was getting ready to spray a group of dirt dobber’s nests I noticed something move above it. A big black hunter spider (not sure of the actual name of its type). Me being me decided to see what it was doing (and use it as an excuse to stand in the shade a bit).

When a dirt dobber would fly by it would stand still. If it landed and went into it’s nest the spider would crawl down to right above the hole to the dobber’s nest. When the wasp would start to crawl out, the spider would attack and bite it before it could fly – the wasp couldn’t sting it because it was still half in the nest. After it bit the wasp, it would let it drop down to the ground and go back up to the shadows. After 3 or 4 wasps, it crawled down and got them off the ground and drug them to it’s den.

The nature science geek in me just thought it was cool to see. But then, the gamer in me did the ‘Hmmm what if” process. How could this feed into a game scenario?

Oh yeah, as the spider was killing wasps, I see it as good, so any scanerio would use it as such – despite the normal negative view of spiders..

I have a few ideas, but nothing solid. How would you all incorporate it?

I definitely see spiders as neutral though there is a literary precedent for a good spider: Charlotte's Web. That character or scenario might make a neat adventure or starting point for thinking about spiders in a positive light.

I have to say though that Mud Daubers are also neutral. I welcome them into my garden because they use caterpillars as a source of food for their young. While they can sting they -rarely- do so. In the fourteen years we have lived here my husband only got stung once. It has never happened to me even though I spend a LOT of time outside. Years ago we had a big colony of them and they used to follow me around as I tended the garden. Flying right up to me and then zooming off to do whatever it is they do. Here's a weird factoid you might like since you are interested in natural history: they can see and recognize faces. Maybe not human faces but the faces of other wasps,

I'd love to play an adventure with ordinary 'garden variety' creatures. I think that is a really great idea.

[Treebore]

These kinds of reasons are why I love the Druid spell Awaken. In a recent game I Awakened two Giant Eagles, my Heavy Warhorse, and tried to Awaken a Mammoth, but failed. Guess what I would have named the Mammoth if I had succeeded. Penny, ask your husband for details on why I failed. I was so looking forward to having conversations with Manny the Mammoth. Oh well, now I will just have to wait for our Druids to get powerful enough to do it for me. In the mean time, I get to throw around Meteor Swarms! Woohoo!! I hope that lasts an inordinately looooooong time! (My character has the Book of Infinite Spells).

[Penny-Whistle]

These kinds of reasons are why I love the Druid spell Awaken. In a recent game I Awakened two Giant Eagles, my Heavy Warhorse, and tried to Awaken a Mammoth, but failed. Guess what I would have named the Mammoth if I had succeeded. Penny, ask your husband for details on why I failed. I was so looking forward to having conversations with Manny the Mammoth. Oh well, now I will just have to wait for our Druids to get powerful enough to do it for me. In the mean time, I get to throw around Meteor Swarms! Woohoo!! I hope that lasts an inordinately looooooong time! (My character has the Book of Infinite Spells).

omg Awaken! I just looked it up. Love it.

[Lurker]

...
Giant Trap Door Spider is cool. Size changing powers? Venom that enslaves or charms the bitten and permits the victim to understand empathetically the spiders and makes them willing servants.. Kind of like a mass conversion attempt.. human and spider communes in symbiotic relationships.... got to love those nimble fingered little hairless apes...

Oh, I like that! I know there are fungi in real life that do that to insects, there may even be some fungi in the game that does it I'm not sure. However, I never thought of having a spider/insect do it, but it does make sense in a way ... consider that idea copied!


Penny, I agree spiders a neutral. However, in literary settings - except for Charlotte as you mentioned - they tend to be more sinister and on the side of evil. Even my beloved Tolkien gave them an evil bent in The Hobbit, and in Return of the King with the giant evil spider in the mountain caves leading to Mordor.

I bet most people also see them as 'not good' I know my wife does and I have to save any spider she sees.

As for wasps, I can agree they are also neutral, but some of them we have around here are on the aggressive side and as they seem to love going after my little girl I can't say they are not evil.

Plus, I like spiders more than wasps, so like the idea of a 'good' spider ambushing 'bad' insects. I can morph it to giant spiders setting up ambushes for goblins, kobolds, etc and in a way helping the adventures. I wonder though if the adventures would realize it and not attack them on site ... Hmmmmm that ads a twist I didn't think of earlier ...

Tree, again that is my main weakness, my lack of knowledge on spells and spell casting classes. I'd never thought of that, but a spell like that on a good bent giant spider could do some great things ...

[Penny-Whistle]

Other ideas for positive spiders:

Arachne: Multiple versions from ancient times exist with varying expressions of hubris. Ovid's version has her beating out Athena in a contest where she shows the pettiness and misogyny of the gods in a flawless tapestry. Though not pious, she is still a 'good' person and one a reader can sympathize with -- at least the gods show some mercy to her in most of the tales. Politically this is an interesting myth for feminists for a variety of reasons. Not just because she calls out Zeus' propensity for rape but also because later when industrialization started to take hold and women lost their monopoly over the weaving trades this myth (in a variety of forms) became rather popular. Arachne still shows up in popular culture frequently. I think she could make an interesting NPC. Truth-teller. Or less positively: the snitch.

The Fates: There are so many iterations of the three goddesses of fate throughout Europe. Three goddesses join together to be responsible for 'weaving' i.e. determining a person's fate. It isn't hard for me to imagine them as spiders or spider-like. Again, with the advent of industralization these figures were transformed in the imagination. Once women started losing their economic power, these figures were more likely to be seen as three witches (think the Scottish play's three witches). While still powerful they sure weren't goddesses. If your fate is unpleasant I suppose it would be hard to imagine them as 'good' or 'positive' but imagine if they were weaving a happy story for you. Could work as NPCs for sure. Quest givers. Or as in Macbeth's case: not so helpful helpers. Like Arachne, they still show up in modern stories.

[AndyMac]

For a roleplaying opportunity, you might have an intelligent "good" spider as the last of a once proud and noble race. Now too old (or wounded and dying) she needs the PC's to complete a mission/quest/thing for her. It may or may not involve engaging her now corrupted young. There might be a redemption arc. I could see this being placed in an area dominated by fey creatures.

Yeah, you could do a lot with this.

[Penny-Whistle]

For a roleplaying opportunity, you might have an intelligent "good" spider as the last of a once proud and noble race. Now too old (or wounded and dying) she needs the PC's to complete a mission/quest/thing for her. It may or may not involve engaging her now corrupted young. There might be a redemption arc. I could see this being placed in an area dominated by fey creatures.

Yeah, you could do a lot with this.

I totally agree. Spiders as NPCs offer all kinds of opportunities.

Oddly enough I was just using the web to ID a particularly beautiful spider I found in the garden today and I ran into some info that I thought was kind of interesting. The site said that 3/4 people admit to being kind of creeped out by spiders. Where they got that number from wasn't documented but I am inclined to believe it. I write a nature blog and the only time I ever seemed to have scared my regular readers was when I posted what I thought was a lovely picture of a spider. (She was. Her legs glowed in the sunlight ... but more than a few people wrote notes explaining how spiders genuinely scare them. Men and women.)

So whether you want to use spiders in a positive or negative way, their inclusion in a game could potentially create a -strong- emotional response in some of your players.

[Tadhg]

Hmm, how about a battle between:

Patu digua ~ David

and

the bird eater - Goliath!

[Penny-Whistle]

Hmm, how about a battle between:

Patu digua ~ David

and

the bird eater - Goliath!

Though the bird eater looks a bit like Cthulhu I'd place my bet on the Patu digua. =)