Clerics - Crossbows and 'Chant'

[T1Hound]

Hi -

I've really been enjoying all the topics and some of the optional rules being created have made me enjoy the game like when I first started playing 1E and 2E.

Having come over recently from 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder, clerics were able to use crossbows. I see C&C clerics can use daggers. Would it be breaking anything (other than nostalgia?) to allow clerics to use crossbows?

Also, there was an old D&D spell called 'chant' as long as the caster was chanting (not being able to cast a spell), the cleric could impose I believe a +1 for allies and -1 to enemies. It was removed over the years and I don't know the reasons why but I was thinking of adding it back in.

Thanks
-George

[pawndream]

Nothing would break by allowing a cleric to use a crossbow, or any weapon for that matter.

I have imported other spells from all editions into C&C with no issue. Chant should be no different.

[Treebore]

Yeah, absolutely. This is C&C, the rules are mostly just suggested guidelines, the specifics are meant to be whatever you want them to be for your own gaming fun.

[Go0gleplex]

Not to mention that depending on your pantheon, crossbows may be an allowed weapon of the faith anyhow.

[Captain_K]

Clerics seem to slant toward their culture or the weapon of their deity.. almost religiously. Sorry could not help myself.

What, Chant is gone? That was a great spell, always the last spell after the cleric was out of spells... oh well, time to bring it back.

[Arduin]

I allow a cleric to use a weapon that their God uses even if outside the "list". Also racial weapons are allowed (Elven clerics and bows for instance). Whatever works for your setting is what is correct.

[Weisenwolf]

Clerics seem to slant toward their culture or the weapon of their deity.. almost religiously. Sorry could not help myself.

What, Chant is gone? That was a great spell, always the last spell after the cleric was out of spells... oh well, time to bring it back.

+1 What the Captain just said

[Rigon]

I allow clerics to use crossbows and use spells from other editions if there is no C&C equivalent. Plus, in C&C, clerics can use the main weapon associated with their deity.

R-

[Omote]

I'll be the voice of opposition. I don't let clerics use ranged weapons, even with regard to deities because of a balancing factor. Clerics can use any armor, and have a decent BTH bonus. Not allowing them to use crossbows, bows, and all other propelled weapons prevents the class from being a minor fighter or ranger-type in regards to bow-like weapons.

The Weapon Selection portion of the cleric class description specifically allows them to use weapons which are in alignment with their deity of the major deities of their pantheon. So if the CK allows such things, of course the cleric could use those kinds of weapons.

But let me throw a little something different at you. What if, specifically, clerics were forbidden from using ranged weapons for a religious purpose. One purpose, and an argument I have made for the case many times, is that a cleric is an extension of the deity. The deity does not get into mundane battles in dungeons and the like. But if the cleric is the extension of the deity, and the deity cannot present its own face to their opponents, the next closest thing to doing so is the cleric. When a cleric meets and enemy face-to-face in battle, any true cleric would proclaim that the opponent faces the cleric's god. The cleric himself is granted powers by his deity to show the world that his deity is true. When firing a bow or crossbow, the enemy doesn't get to meet the cleric face-to-face. The enemy probably knows very little about the deity and his subject faithful when being shot down in a hail of arrow fire. But when in melee combat, the enemy knows for whom he is dying for... the opposing clerics's god, de facto.

~O

[Go0gleplex]

@Omote: I can see some of that, though if using an elvish pantheon I think the bow figures prominently. Also in religions such as Artemis/Diana the Huntress where the bow figures prominently.

If one were to go that route, rather than forbidding all ranged, I would limit it to long/short bow types. Hand thrown weapons, not so much since pretty much anyone can throw something (not that they may be able to hit the broadside of the castle if they do...but...) and practicing to do so may be part of spear training and such. Slings are also a fairly normal weapon for common folks and I can't see youngsters picking this up as part of hunting for food like squirrels or rabbits.

Crossbows would be a religious command if so. Pretty much anyone can use a crossbow if they have the strength to pull the string back. So there wouldn't be any other reason that they couldn't be used other than under direct orders.

[serleran]

My game world only has 13 deities. It's pretty easy to decide if a given god might allow it. Only one does.

[Go0gleplex]

My game world only has 13 deities. It's pretty easy to decide if a given god might allow it. Only one does.

I have three. One runs the weapons allowed per the PHB. The opposing deity actually encourages them as a good means of assassination.

[serleran]

I say "only 13" as I used to have something like 600... an almost Greek way of handling things. Then I decided I only needed one per alignment (or class) and maybe a few stragglers.

[Captain_K]

Not to pick a fight, but if your god is say Uller of Norse or The Elven God of the Hunt (the bow one) I would think you kind of have to use a bow.. heck, I call the elven priests Grey Cloaks of the Holy Bow and their bow is a special wood and their wooden holy symbol to boot.