[Bluffside] Putting the "Steam" In Steam Gnomes...

[SmokestackJones]

...or Betty Crocker Go BOOM!

My Bluffside campaign got postponed for about 6 months due to my leg injury. Oh well, more time to work on it.

I'm intrigued by the Steam Gnomes, as I always had a thing for steampunk (yes Mike, I'm patiently awaiting the release of Victorious) and this race gives me a chance to go full-blown 'punk with steam and clockwork inventions and such. Which brings me to black powder weapons.

I know there is a lot of controversy about using black powder in fantasy and I come down on the side of "hell yes!" I LOVE the idea of gunnes and muskets misfiring and long loading times (besides, I'm also going to add Freeport into the mix and IMO you can't have proper pirates without flintlocks and cannons broadsiding ships). However, in a nod to those who think dimly about this (and to make it more interesting) I've decided to use another type of powdery substance for ammo.

Flour.

Yes, the stuff you bake with. I've heard of flour silos occasionally exploding under the right (or wrong) circumstances and it sounds like something I can run with.

Comments, opinions, brickbats?

-SJ

[pawndream]

Flour is one way to go, but how about tying it right back to the source material: adamantium, specifically, the residue/by-product that results from the adamantium-extraction process?

There would be piles of whatever this stuff is lying about, but maybe less so now than when the mines were in full swing. Perhaps the gnomes have this stuff stockpiled somewhere, and are essentially Gun Barrens.

At any rate, if I were to include firearms, I would give them a source that is more fantastical and directly tied to the setting itself.

Just one way to do it.

[serleran]

Sawdust makes much more sense and would be common.

[Treebore]

Its actually wheat and corn silo's known for going boom! Its from the dust given off by the wheat and corn kernals being heavy in the air, then apply flame... So you could have them somehow "capture"that. Make it quasi magical and therefore have a reason for it to remain rare/controlled.

Plus here is why magic will remain superior to gun powder weapons. A Pistol will ALWAYS do 1d4 damage. A Rifle type will always do 1d8, and so on. They don't scale like magic does, and building up to things like canons entails huge costs in investment and time. So does becoming a powerful magic user, but at least your power scales.

[Go0gleplex]

While fine dust does have a tendency to react badly when exposed to flame it really doesn't have the same energy that black powder produces. Additionally it is only explosive while airborne with plenty of oxygen, otherwise it tends to simply smolder. If you are looking at a substitute for gun powder and something that gnomes would have access too, I would suggest lampblack or similar gas commonly found in mines underground. I mean gnomes like to look for gemstones and dwarves go after other ores to boot. Lampblack, natural gas, etc. would be common and need to be vented out. But what if these were harvested as well. You could place them in containers under pressure attached to the 'fire arm' (a whole new definition behind that as such) with slugs separate...more of a hand cannon type affair. Or sealed cartridges. Your rate of energy return would be better giving better range and force than just dust.

[Arduin]

IMO you can't have proper pirates without flintlocks and cannons broadsiding ships).

Pirates existed in FAR greater numbers across the globe BEFORE powder weapons than since that tech development...

[SmokestackJones]

IMO you can't have proper pirates without flintlocks and cannons broadsiding ships).

Pirates existed in FAR greater numbers across the globe BEFORE powder weapons than since that tech development...

True, but the classical image to me is flintlicks and cutlasses.

I like the sawdust/lampblack idea. It'd still need to be combined with maybe a third ingredient (corn as suggested) and processed so you can't just stuff some sawdust and lampblack in your firearm and expect to get gunfire (unless you're MacGuyver ).

Perhaps you need magic to combine the ingredients - magical fire may be the only fuel hot enough to blend them. Oh boy, more magical mishaps!

-SJ

[Treebore]

Have you ever looked at the Iron Kingdoms setting? It probably has a lot of ideas and inspiration you'd like.

[Treebore]

Also you might find the Pathfinder SRD section on firearms of use for coming up with game mechanics, etc...

[Penny-Whistle]

IMO you can't have proper pirates without flintlocks and cannons broadsiding ships).

Pirates existed in FAR greater numbers across the globe BEFORE powder weapons than since that tech development...

True, but the classical image to me is flintlicks and cutlasses.

I like the sawdust/lampblack idea. It'd still need to be combined with maybe a third ingredient (corn as suggested) and processed so you can't just stuff some sawdust and lampblack in your firearm and expect to get gunfire (unless you're MacGuyver ).

Perhaps you need magic to combine the ingredients - magical fire may be the only fuel hot enough to blend them. Oh boy, more magical mishaps!

-SJ

MacGuyver embodies Gnomish ingenuity I like your flour idea a lot because I like to picture Gnomes using common ingredients in uncommon ways. But why stop at powder weapons? In a pinch, any kinder-Gnome could fix up a nice CO2 infrared laser over the recess break.

[Go0gleplex]

One trick for making magic bullets/firearms; Bullet has an exploding rune or such on it that the hammer triggers when it comes in contact. Explosion from the rune would be fairly equivalent to a 7.62 round in terms of force in an off the cuff estimate. Or with the rune caster, developing paired runes, one for the bullet and one for the trigger so the bullets don't go off in the magazine/bag.

[serleran]

Another option would be to have two agents which, by themselves, are rather inert or relatively harmless like sodium and water. However, when combined, they create a sort of power (like sodium hydroxide) which can be used in the making of powered engines. Or, emulsion explosives.

I guess it would depend on what the gnomes have at hand. They'd use everything. Problem is... some of these ideas could have negative effects on the environment and considering the native ability to speak with burrowing mammals, not a thing they'd likely use (who wants all that incessant chatter about destroying homes and poisoning the water supply!)

[Go0gleplex]

Another option would be to have two agents which, by themselves, are rather inert or relatively harmless like sodium and water. However, when combined, they create a sort of power (like sodium hydroxide) which can be used in the making of powered engines. Or, emulsion explosives.

I guess it would depend on what the gnomes have at hand. They'd use everything. Problem is... some of these ideas could have negative effects on the environment and considering the native ability to speak with burrowing mammals, not a thing they'd likely use (who wants all that incessant chatter about destroying homes and poisoning the water supply!)

Yeah. I'd totally forgotten about sodium exploding on contact with water. That's a pretty good bang for the buck in itself.

[SmokestackJones]

Man oh man I'm getting giddy at the ideas flying around here! This is great!

-SJ

[Captain_K]

Read the series by Joel Rosenberg "The Sleeping Dragon". Basically old fashion gun powder is brought into a DnD world (quite literally) and the other side responds with "magic" powder. Rather clever attempts.

Also Roger Zelazny (sp) Amber Series has the main character stumble upon a substance that behaves just like gun powder from a powderized gem stone (just not an expensive one).

So its fantasy, simple natural stuff, more dynamic...

Remember Wild Wild West, the one guy made a potion of liquefied diamonds to basically be a Haste Potion on steroids.

Have fun with it man.

[Lurker]

One trick for making magic bullets/firearms; Bullet has an exploding rune or such on it that the hammer triggers when it comes in contact. Explosion from the rune would be fairly equivalent to a 7.62 round in terms of force in an off the cuff estimate. Or with the rune caster, developing paired runes, one for the bullet and one for the trigger so the bullets don't go off in the magazine/bag.

I like that idea.

I've always kicked around the idea of having bullets 'enspelled' or rune marked or something like that. All minor spell effects, but things that will up the effect of a simple bullet. Things like a shocking grasp effect of sound burst, or things like that. Of course micro size them stepping down their damage and area effect (unless it is a cannon sized bullet).

However, As I stopped GMing well before that idea bubbled up in the chaos that is my mind, so I don't know if it would work or if there are any unintended consequences.

As for the exploding dust substances. From first hand experience, I know it works and works well. Got a couple of good real world war stories to go with it, but it boils down to anything that gets dust suspended in the are and then adds a flash can take out a whole building.

However, that effect does not scale down to gun size.

That said. I like the idea of 2 or 3 mundane items being mixed (and add some gnome knowhow, or spell magic effect) being used.

[Penny-Whistle]

Gnomes of course have access to all kinds of wonderous powders that seem rare to us: fool's gold, pixie dust, butterfly scales and a special iridescent glitter ground from the shells of scarab beetles.

[Captain_K]

Fineous Fingers, "Here, hold my Foster Grants." commanded the wizard who then proceeds to whip out a machine gun, I mean, a wand of automatic magic missiles. So delivering magic by bullets or bullets by magic, does it really matter? Key is how you work the bullet mechanics (aka range, rate, and DAMAGE) into the game. Save or die, simple damage, etc. I think old DMG and the new CKG has rules and ideas on that, but I never liked mixing that too much, so no good recall.

[Arduin]

Probably the best safeguard is to have the material in question be something that cannot be manufactured on the material plane. It must be made on some dangerous plane (where it doesn't work as an explosive) that is dangerous to reach, much less to gather and make the stuff.

[SmokestackJones]

Was watching my set of Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes DVDs and The Empty House reminded me of another propellant: air.

Air rifles or air pistols, along the lines of BB or pellet guns would be something Steam Gnomes would come up with and fit into the steampunk feel. too. Either pump acion or possibly chambers of compressed air would work.

-SJ

[Lurker]

I have never gotten into 'steam punk'. However, I will cede that that is a PREFECT way to handle this. It takes it out of the realm of magic, but keeps it limited to special knowledge that only a few will have or come close to understanding. That will keep it out of "common" hands and viable only to a few hand selected individuals.

Hmmmm, I was reading up on making hard apple cider, and that progressed into Champaign (as a warning about using high yield yeast and extra sugar or bottling the cider/wine green and letting the CO2 build up and explode the bottle.

Maybe, you can mix to 2 into a process to make the gun work ... yes stem is a step, as is a special yeast. However, mix the two & bubble bubble bam ....

[Go0gleplex]

Was watching my set of Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes DVDs and The Empty House reminded me of another propellant: air.

Air rifles or air pistols, along the lines of BB or pellet guns would be something Steam Gnomes would come up with and fit into the steampunk feel. too. Either pump acion or possibly chambers of compressed air would work.

-SJ

If you are looking at that type of tech, might I suggest you watch the anime STEAMBOY. They talk about pure water and super compressed steam etc. which is totally up the alley you are chasing along.

[SmokestackJones]

Was watching my set of Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes DVDs and The Empty House reminded me of another propellant: air.

Air rifles or air pistols, along the lines of BB or pellet guns would be something Steam Gnomes would come up with and fit into the steampunk feel. too. Either pump acion or possibly chambers of compressed air would work.

-SJ

If you are looking at that type of tech, might I suggest you watch the anime STEAMBOY. They talk about pure water and super compressed steam etc. which is totally up the alley you are chasing along.

I forgot about that one. Yes, I have seen it, thanks for the reminder.

-SJ

[Go0gleplex]

Was watching my set of Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes DVDs and The Empty House reminded me of another propellant: air.

Air rifles or air pistols, along the lines of BB or pellet guns would be something Steam Gnomes would come up with and fit into the steampunk feel. too. Either pump acion or possibly chambers of compressed air would work.

-SJ

If you are looking at that type of tech, might I suggest you watch the anime STEAMBOY. They talk about pure water and super compressed steam etc. which is totally up the alley you are chasing along.

I forgot about that one. Yes, I have seen it, thanks for the reminder.

-SJ

Hehehe...you could even have a gnome version of Edward running loose.

If you really want to get crazy, a WN I've been following has the MC using his lightening production ability to ignite the propellant in the shell as well as boosting the velocity with a railgun effect. Steam powered generators or those wonderful shocking grasp spells just got a whole lot more interesting.

[Itlas]

I would add to the suggested material to read also

Legends & Lairs:Sorcery and Steam

and

Sword & Sorcery:Chaositech

they add steampunk and retrotechnology into a fantasy setting and they're both d20 system so easily adaptable for C&C

[serleran]

There are numerous games which can be used. I would look at the PC game Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

[SmokestackJones]

I would add to the suggested material to read also

Legends & Lairs:Sorcery and Steam

and

Sword & Sorcery:Chaositech

they add steampunk and retrotechnology into a fantasy setting and they're both d20 system so easily adaptable for C&C

I have the L&L Sorcery and Steam pack up somewhere in the garage (I hope - it may have gone to HPB a while ago).

Didn't know about Chaositech. Thanks for the heads-up.

-SJ

[SmokestackJones]

BTW, for the record, I'm not worried about having it restricted. Steam Gnomes would still be the only ones who have the knowledge (and they want it to be available to EVERYONE) but it's more like "USER BEWARE."

"You really want to try out that magically souped-up steam and flour bullet slinger he just invented? Good luck sir. You hit? Good, now let me roll on the Mishap Table...Ooooo! You're wearing leather? Better stop, drop and roll."

-SJ