Race: Human - an attempt to spice up the "average" race

[ssfsx17]

(this is for games where all races get three Primes)

Alignment: Any
Size: Medium
Vision: Day Vision
Theoretical Lifespan: 80 years

+1 Intelligence
+1 Wisdom
+2 Charisma

Human-to-Human Bonding: All humans have a bonus of +2 to interact with other humans.

Every human has one virtue and one vice.

VIRTUES

Charity - Exclusive with Greed. The character must give at least 10% of all earned gold or gold-equivalent value to the poor. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to all reactions with poor people. The character also gains a bonus of (Level/5) to resist illusions (if the illusion is trying to be something higher-level than what it is).

Chastity - Exclusive with Lust. The character cannot have sex unless it is with the one person they are married to. They also cannot get divorced except by death, or by their spouse cheating. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to resist all mind-altering effects, as well as to resist draining effects caused by the touch of undead and demons.

Diligence - Exclusive with Sloth. When the character sees a problem, they must always choose exactly one possible way to solve a problem and will not listen to the rest of the party about alternatives. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to all out-of-combat checks for solving that problem.

Humility - Exclusive with Pride. The character must reject all titles, honors, awards, and medals until the rest of the party has gotten more than themself. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to all reactions with administrators, craftsmen, stagehands, and other behind-the-scenes types.

Kindness - Exclusive with Envy. The character must never kill helpless creatures unless it is to end the suffering of a creature that otherwise cannot be saved. The character must also never use force unless they or their party are threatened first (e.g. an enemy pointing a crossbow at the party). In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to all reactions with children, monks, nuns, and other secluded types.

Patience - Exclusive with Wrath. The character must always choose a slower but less-risky path when available. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) when working with things that take a long time, such as construction, mining, and creating artistic masterpieces. The character also gains a bonus of (Level/5) to resist temporal and planar effects.

Temperance - Exclusive with Gluttony. The character cannot drink alcohol except when involved in rituals, and even then, must feel shame at getting red-faced or acting inappropriately. In exchange, the character gains a bonus of (Level/5) to resist body-altering effects, polymorph, poisons, and diseases.

VICES

Envy - Exclusive with Kindness. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid flipping out and going nuts when they see that someone has something - for example a spouse, a house, a piece of equipment, or a mouse - that is better than what the character has. On a failure, it proves to be highly distracting and causes a penalty of -5 to the character's next roll.

Gluttony - Exclusive with Temperance. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid spending 20% of their earned gold-equivalent value on things like beer, food, and food cooked in beer batter.

Greed - Exclusive with Charity. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to invest in something long-term, unless other bankers say that it is a sure bet. The character must also make a check to avoid get-rich-quick schemes that are obviously going to fail.

Lust - Exclusive with Chastity. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid spending 20% of their earned gold-equivalent value on things like wine, men, and women.

Pride - Exclusive with Humility. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid insulting people who are perceived to be inferior, as well as to avoid making ridiculous self-inflated claims. Examples of prideful statements include and are not limited to, "I aced school. You need to get a degree at a reputable university."

Sloth - Exclusive with Diligence. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid taking twice as long to do a non-combat action, such as picking a lock.

Wrath - Exclusive with Patience. The character must make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to avoid flipping out and killing people for perceived slights and insults.

[Arduin]

A bit too unbalanced when the extra Prime is added in

[Captain_K]

So if in a game where Humans get 3 primes and others get two you would suggest the virtue and vice in place of that third prime?
What is Day Vision besides tongue and cheek poke "blind as anything"...

Why INT, WIS and CHA?? Just curious.

Finally I like the virtue and vice idea. Very classic.. expect to see more of this from me in the near future.

[ssfsx17]

So if in a game where Humans get 3 primes and others get two you would suggest the virtue and vice in place of that third prime?
What is Day Vision besides tongue and cheek poke "blind as anything"...

Why INT, WIS and CHA?? Just curious.

Finally I like the virtue and vice idea. Very classic.. expect to see more of this from me in the near future.

1. Yes, although I would instead recommend this breed of human for games where all races get 3 primes. Which so many people houserule anyways to encourage elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. Otherwise, everyone will just play human despite being the "average" race.

2. "Day Vision" is meant to contrast with twilight vision, infravision, etc. That specific line is a hint to a little project I'm writing where "day vision" is explained in more detail, and where infravision will have difficulty seeing in broad daylight.

3. This is meant to make humans biased towards magic use, inventions, knights, bards, paladins, having hierarchical systems with kings and queens and the lot, and breeding at a rate that would outpace other races if it weren't for human propensity towards war. Elves and dwarves should feel suspicious of humans because of their slick talking and attempts to sell used cars.

[Captain_K]

OK, cool. Yeah, I usually have very few Humans. Most of the time groups are 80% non-human.

[Tadhg]

Interesting.

How are the virtues/vices assigned? CK roll or player pick?

[Captain_K]

Such things are so much character concept and how one would roll play their PC I would hope the goal is selection not random, but hey I'm not in charge.

I kind of recall something like this in 2nd Ed DnD in the Viking Campaign book...

[Itlas]

I think the best way to spice up humans would be threating them as different races depending by their region,giving them +1/-1 or +2/-2 to attributes and some exclusive traits and skills.
This would be great for Masters who want a lot of different races but want their campaign still fantasy and medieval without a party that resembles popped out from Star Wars,full of people with blue\green\red\purple skin,scales,horns,wings,living golems and so on.
Also would be perfect for campaigns settled in worlds where there are only humans like Conan or A Song of Ice and Fire\Game of Thrones.

[Go0gleplex]

I think the best way to spice up humans would be threating them as different races depending by their region,giving them +1/-1 or +2/-2 to attributes and some exclusive traits and skills.
This would be great for Masters who want a lot of different races but want their campaign still fantasy and medieval without a party that resembles popped out from Star Wars,full of people with blue\green\red\purple skin,scales,horns,wings,living golems and so on.
Also would be perfect for campaigns settled in worlds where there are only humans like Conan or A Song of Ice and Fire\Game of Thrones.

I was sort of thinking along these lines too, just couldn't get my thoughts organized around it.

Say you had a country known for its scholars or educating everyone to a certain level from childhood. PCs from that country get a +1 to INT or WIS. Another country is more like Sparta was, so people from there gain a +1 combat bonus or maybe a weapon specialization. You have folks from a nation of islands where sailing and swimming are necessary, so bonus to checks for those skills.

The OP proposal just has me thinking that those types of things should be the player's choice and not something that could restrict how the character is played.

[Captain_K]

OK, Let's all pick one we are familiar with, and do some good all fashion brain storming:

Vikings
Resistant to Cold as if Endure Elements is upon them but only to zero degrees F.
+1 to STR & CON, -1 to WIS & CHA
+1 with Axes
Pick any two skill sets: seafarer, trapper, hunter, farmer, shipwright, blacksmith, etc.
Fated +1 to all saves whenever in mortal danger
Nickname: Gain/create a nickname and the CK assigns a bonus to go with it. Ex. Erik Bloodaxe gains +1 to damage with axe, Sven the Old gains a +1 WIS, etc.

[Captain_K]

From an earlier chain (I got to learn to link), here are some ways to add "stuff" to Humans instead of three primes:
A) You get a third prime - aka no change.
B) You get two half primes instead of your third prime.
C) You get on half prime and two of the human racial abilities listed below plus your normal two primes.
D) Take any four of the following (repeats are not allowed):
1) +3 to any 3 categories of saves.
2) Master an additional profession outside your class.
3) Linguist, know 2-5 languages (select half CK determines the rest).
4) Enemy: Pick a race, creature, small class of creatures, or cultural group to be your nemesis (CK approval required); +1 to all rolls against but -1 to deal fairly or rationally with or concerning (bigoted).
5) Fast Learner: Able to learn new languages, skills, spells, abilities and tools in half the normal time (this includes spells memorization and prayer??).
6) Mastery: You may gain a +1 to all things concerning one ability within your class (turning undead, swinging a bastard sword, picking pockets, tracking, saves vs illusionist spells, etc.)
7) You may gain one minor class ability outside your class; selection at CK discretion.
8) You may increase one physical attribute by +1 when you decrease another physical attribute by one OR you may increase one mental attribute by +1 when you decrease another mental attribute by one (18 is the limit for any increase).
9) You may increase one physical attribute by +2 when you decrease another physical attribute by two and one mental attribute by one OR you may increase one mental attribute by +2 when you decrease another mental attribute by two and one physical attribute by one (19 is the limit for any increase).
10) You gain experience at a 10% higher rate.

[Lurker]

I too like the idea of 'racial' classes and differences vs the norm of a human is a human is a human. As such I start from the idea of everyone has 3 primes no matter the race. However, all races besides the average Joe-6-pack have a racial class that requires exp to progress like any other class (with added racial class abilities being added or improved as the racial class goes up in levels). Additionally, I have a few specific human 'races' that too have racial classes with bonuses etc.

However, everything I've thought up seems to be too clunky for my own likening.

As such, I like the idea of kicking around the ideas here to come up with something vastly better than I ever would. ....

With that, I like your idea along with Itals & Go0's (and then the following Capt K's Viking example). Much simpler than what I come up with but at the same time gives each society a framework to build upon. (I'd argue - slipping into my devils advocate hat - that the - to wis and cha may not fit. You can't be a fool and sail like they did nor be un charismatic and convince your neighbors to hop on a boat with you to go 'A Vikining' with you ... but I'm not sure what a good balance to their +1 to str and con would be ...)

Now, to the meat of it ... Ssfsx's virtue/vice ... I love the idea of it. That reminds me of a game I played ... early - mid 90s I can't remember which it was though. But it hinged a good deal on personal virtues/vice etc... drat I can't think of it, it will drive me crazy ...

That said, I'm not sure I like it being 2 ends a the pendulum swing on the virtue/vice . I think it was Aristotle that pointed out there are some people that through training/right thinking and moral development that are completely virtuous, on the other side there are those so given to their lusts that they are depraved. then there are those working toward being virtuous (struggling at it at times, but still moving that way) and those that are sliding towards depravity (may be able to be corrected, but it is doubtful and their inclination is towards vice). I'm not sure if there was a type that is perfectly balanced ... I don't think so.

With that I can't see someone being perfectly .... charitable, but then vice ridden by .... lust.

There should be a process to strengthen one and weaken the other ... Say you do start out with charity and lust, but they aren't over powering each other and are only minor elements of the character (therefore a seceded or failed check only gives a minor benefit/detriment). But through progression and role playing, the player shows to be more and more generous, so a greater benefit, and also a lesser and lesser chance to fail at lust (still a chance and still a minor detriment, but it is being easier and easier for the player to resist lust). Or, the player instead of giving into being charitable, spends time in the cat house after each adventure. So, his natural inclination to be charitable shrinks and he is given more and more into ... well you know ...

It would be great role playing (to a point) but there would have to be a mechanics to judge and move the sliding scale along ..... I think I've read about a game around here that has those elements ... (cough cough ... Clavis's ghastly affair ... cough cough).

[Arduin]

(I'd argue - slipping into my devils advocate hat - that the - to wis and cha may not fit. You can't be a fool and sail like they did nor be un charismatic and convince your neighbors to hop on a boat with you to go 'A Vikining' with you ... but I'm not sure what a good balance to their +1 to str and con would be ...)

True. The country the Vikings took over and built up (England) built an Empire that controlled over 25% Earth's land (and most of its Ocean's) and over 20% of the worlds population.

[Itlas]

(I'd argue - slipping into my devils advocate hat - that the - to wis and cha may not fit. You can't be a fool and sail like they did nor be un charismatic and convince your neighbors to hop on a boat with you to go 'A Vikining' with you ... but I'm not sure what a good balance to their +1 to str and con would be ...)

True. The country the Vikings took over and built up (England) built an Empire that controlled over 25% Earth's land (and most of its Ocean's) and over 20% of the worlds population.

C'mon guys,this is a rpg not an historic essay.

What about:

NORTHMEN

+1 to Strenght -1 to Intelligence (Northmen are very strong but they don't give much importance to culture,education and books)

Intimidation Northmen are often feared as killers and barbarians by other populations and races,they gain a +2 on all Charisma checks when they intimidate someone.

Weapon Proficiency(Axe) Northmen are very skilled to use Axe,they gain a +1 to hit when using it and a Northmen has automatically the proficiency for it independently by his class (example:a Northmen Wizard has the proficiency for the Axe even if normally isn't a weapon that wizards can use)

Cold Resistance Northmen are used to cold clime,they gain a +2 to all saving checks involving cold effects

Expert Sailor Northmen are expert sailors,they gain a +2 on all checks involving using ships and orientation on sea


What do you guys think?
It's good for Vikings,and removing Expert Sailor it can be easily adapted for Cimmerians or Wildlings.

[Go0gleplex]

It's cool to want to give humans a bit of a tweak or something to replace the third prime for maybe more flavor. However, this can get swept up in power creep real fast which would take away from advantages of the other races IMO.

[Arduin]

C'mon guys,this is a rpg not an historic essay.

You think THAT was an essay?

[Itlas]

It's cool to want to give humans a bit of a tweak or something to replace the third prime for maybe more flavor. However, this can get swept up in power creep real fast which would take away from advantages of the other races IMO.

I don't think so,because variant humans would be just other races in terms of game mechanics,they could have favorite classes and prohibited classes like demihumans for example.
And if you fear the depowering of demihumans you could improve their attributes variation from +1/-1 to +2/-2

[Go0gleplex]

It's cool to want to give humans a bit of a tweak or something to replace the third prime for maybe more flavor. However, this can get swept up in power creep real fast which would take away from advantages of the other races IMO.

I don't think so,because variant humans would be just other races in terms of game mechanics,they could have favorite classes and prohibited classes like demihumans for example.
And if you fear the depowering of demihumans you could improve their attributes variation from +1/-1 to +2/-2

It is. For me it would be watching history repeat itself for yet a third or fourth time.

Even with abilities or bonuses for environment/social practices, humans should never have more than three mods/abilities. Nothing more than a +1 either. If you have to boost the existing bonuses for races to accommodate for the human bonuses, you've just started your power creep and tilted the game a bit.

[Arduin]

Another angle is this is creating, or having, certain classes that are human only. Maybe only humans can be sorcerers (natural wizards) and Druids (a strong class indeed).

Or in a human dominated world fall back on that human trait of disliking those who are different than they are. So human PCs have a MUCH easier time in human areas than do demi-humans. Particularly important in games where lots of town & city action takes place.

[Captain_K]

I come at this from a personal view, "Why would I play a human, I am one and I'm in a fantasy game" and many of my games are typically 50% non-human. So I never have to sell the non-humans or the humans each person has their take as it is, so I don't see (personally) the concerns many of you have, but I understand them conceptually.

Is the three prime the core of this worry? 3 primes are what humans get, other races get two PLUS a "racial pack" of skills, scores, and abilities. Aside: The short guys really get the shaft with move and down sized stuff if anyone plays to that detail.

So is it really just down to Humans get three primes OR two primes and some special stuff BUT it must stay an "OR deal", not both. Would that solve the creep issue?

I like having options and just like all races are not the same, why should all humans be the same.. take the three primes or take a "culture pack" for a human amazon, Viking, or celt.

Celt warrior:
No armor over studded leather and shields - naked is best to show your distain for the enemy
+1 with hand held melee weapons
oral traditionalist - great memory for poems, stories, rhymes and riddles
+1 to STR & DEX but -2 to either INT, WIS or CHA (PC choice)
Partial to blue body paints

OK, that's all I got for these guys, but I know you all have more without making them all Druids...

[Lurker]

C'mon guys,this is a rpg not an historic essay.

What about:

NORTHMEN

+1 to Strenght -1 to Intelligence (Northmen are very strong but they don't give much importance to culture,education and books)

Intimidation Northmen are often feared as killers and barbarians by other populations and races,they gain a +2 on all Charisma checks when they intimidate someone.

Weapon Proficiency(Axe) Northmen are very skilled to use Axe,they gain a +1 to hit when using it and a Northmen has automatically the proficiency for it independently by his class (example:a Northmen Wizard has the proficiency for the Axe even if normally isn't a weapon that wizards can use)

Cold Resistance Northmen are used to cold clime,they gain a +2 to all saving checks involving cold effects

Expert Sailor Northmen are expert sailors,they gain a +2 on all checks involving using ships and orientation on sea


What do you guys think?
It's good for Vikings,and removing Expert Sailor it can be easily adapted for Cimmerians or Wildlings.

Sorry, my natural default is history, even - or especially - in a RPG


That said, I like the write up

[Itlas]

I come at this from a personal view, "Why would I play a human, I am one and I'm in a fantasy game" and many of my games are typically 50% non-human. So I never have to sell the non-humans or the humans each person has their take as it is, so I don't see (personally) the concerns many of you have, but I understand them conceptually.

Is the three prime the core of this worry? 3 primes are what humans get, other races get two PLUS a "racial pack" of skills, scores, and abilities. Aside: The short guys really get the shaft with move and down sized stuff if anyone plays to that detail.

So is it really just down to Humans get three primes OR two primes and some special stuff BUT it must stay an "OR deal", not both. Would that solve the creep issue?

I like having options and just like all races are not the same, why should all humans be the same.. take the three primes or take a "culture pack" for a human amazon, Viking, or celt.

Celt warrior:
No armor over studded leather and shields - naked is best to show your distain for the enemy
+1 with hand held melee weapons
oral traditionalist - great memory for poems, stories, rhymes and riddles
+1 to STR & DEX but -2 to either INT, WIS or CHA (PC choice)
Partial to blue body paints

OK, that's all I got for these guys, but I know you all have more without making them all Druids...

It is simple,build variant humans with 2 primes and a pack of skills and use them together with the classic 3 primes human,so a player can choose which use,for example I gave to Northmen -1 to Intelligence but if a player wants to play a smarter Northman Wizard he will choose the classic human stats for that Northman

[Captain_K]

I agree and per my list above suggest the A, B, C, D human choices (after all we humans are adaptable and could learn any of these).. right now we're making predetermined "racial kits" for humans by "culture" or "human culture kits" to option D of my above list.

I like your Norse guy, simpler than mine and less for the CK to think about and invent on the spot. I love the "axe for all".
But my Celt is so weak, someone's got to put some thought into that and fix my start.