No illusionist healing -tweak

[slimykuotoan]

This'll be my change. Illusionist healing is illusionary only. If recipients fail their saving throws and believe they have been healed, the power of that belief grants them temporary hit points lasting a number of rounds equal to the illusionist's caster level.

[Aramis]

This'll be my change. Illusionist healing is illusionary only. If recipients fail their saving throws and believe they have been healed

How will this work in a party situation? You have been in a party with this person since day one. He told you he is an illusionist. He wears a flowing robe and a stars and planets conical hat and everything. You've seen his spells in action and have noticed they all work on the basis of belief, as opposed to the party wizard, who actually causes things to burst into flames, belief or not.

Placebo affect?

Cognitive dissonance?

With this change, the only recipient's an illusionist would be able to heal effectively, would be those not predisposed to disbelieve him. In other words, enemy monsters.

[slimykuotoan]

No.It wouldn't work for those who know it's illusionary magic.

My illusionists won't be the party clerics.

[Aramis]

No.It wouldn't work for those who know it's illusionary magic.

so you can only heal enemy monsters?

[slimykuotoan]

No. It's just mental trickery that can be used occasionally on npcs, etc. It's just a way of keeping a spell without blacking it out of the book.

[Kayolan]

I guess the question is, does knowledge of the character being an illusionist mean that his illusions cannot affect the said character? Or does it mean that it is questioned and therefore he gains an Intelligence save?

I would rule that it is a form of mental manipulation similar to a Charm Person. And like a Charm Person, just knowing that a caster has done this before and what it means, doesn't actually give your mind immunity to it.

Thoughts?

[slimykuotoan]

Hmm.

That's my thought so far.

[Kayolan]

If we are to say that if a character knows that the caster is an illusionist he is immune to his illusions, then that would really suck for illusionists! The way I look at it, there is some kind of magical effect on the mind going on here, otherwise he is merely a liar and nothing more. However, knowledge of the fact that he casts spells of trickery would help give cause to doubt it, hence an intelligence save.

[slimykuotoan]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Go0gleplex]

I let the illusionist use Aid instead of the healing. Otherwise they don't get any heal spells at all.

[Captain_K]

Does an illusionist advertise himself as anything but a mage? I certainly do not, nor do the PCs "know" their magic is illusion.. keep in mind, the best thing they can do for illusionists is change their damn name. Similar to assassins, they're all thieves... with some extra skills... they do not advertise themselves as assassins, ever..

Our groups do not know our illusionist-monk is anything other than a spell casting monk... same for the bard-illusionist.. most illusionist spells are very real... but yeah I hear yeah.. illusionists are a big pain at times.

I'd much rather have two "mages"..call one a wizard and the other a sorcerer or whatever.

Your rule is fine, but it makes even more to deal with.... keeping track of sort of hit points...

[Kayolan]

Does an illusionist advertise himself as anything but a mage? I certainly do not, nor do the PCs "know" their magic is illusion.. keep in mind, the best thing they can do for illusionists is change their damn name. Similar to assassins, they're all thieves... with some extra skills... they do not advertise themselves as assassins, ever..

Our groups do not know our illusionist-monk is anything other than a spell casting monk... same for the bard-illusionist.. most illusionist spells are very real... but yeah I hear yeah.. illusionists are a big pain at times.

I'd much rather have two "mages"..call one a wizard and the other a sorcerer or whatever.

Certainly this is the case for many spell casters, especially illusionists.

The situation described above was one in which a character actually does know that said character is an illusionist. This could come about through a variety of ways depending on the game, campaign, setting, etc. They may not advertise it, but that does not mean that nobody can ever figure out what's behind their facade and come to an understanding of what they are capable of. Someone may also be very familiar with the illusionist, perhaps a fellow illusionist!

[Go0gleplex]

"Does an illusionist advertise themselves as anything but a mage?"

Can depend on the world in question. Some games have had magic guilds where wizards, illusionists, sorcerers, and summoners were required to wear specific clothing. Those that did not were considered shadow mages and suspected of acting against the good of the realms and hence had open season on them declared.

Others simply know based on the spells being cast using mage craft skills and that certain spells are only available to specific types of casters which is more likely to occur in a generic mage based setting.

[Tadhg]

I severely limit illusionary healing to illusionary damage and not physical damage.

So, if a char takes a serious stab wound and the illusionist is successful at "healing" - the char may think he is healed, but unfortunately he is still bleeding out. And his fellow party members or other NPCs would probably notice and call in the cleric or ask other PCs for potions to do "real" healing.

I mostly stick to the original illusionist powers. I think they are awesome and powerful, but my take is that many CKs don't understand how a simple illusion can distract the enemy in an effective way to sort of interrupt actions or combat to the benefit of the PCs. For me, an illusion cast at the right moment can change everything.

But, for some players it may seem that the class is not up to snuff compared to other classes because of how the CK runs his game (meaning, he/she doesn't do right to the illusionist's abilities).

And so, they might like the increased powers of this class in the later PHs. Not me.

[Captain_K]

I know we all think of illusionist magic as "not real" just fake, but we believe mage magic is REAL... think about that sentence twice, imaginary magic is real but imaginary illusions just don't hold up in the real world??? One imagined magic is more real than the other... I think the Trolls try very hard to tell us despite the use of the word illusion, their magic is very real. So either accept the illusionist as a real user of arcane magic or drop the class... why have a half class that has to be thought about as half real all the time... just messes with the class and wastes time..

[Rigon]

I think the Trolls do a really nice job of describing how illusionist magic works in the CKG (not sure if the same explanations made it into the 6th PHB). So I allow illusionist healing. However, I call the class athe sorcerer and their magic is sorcery, so is not an "illusion" so much as "real" magic.

R-

[Go0gleplex]

In 1E the damage was only real as long as the victim believed it was real. Should they come to disbelieve the damage then it went away because there was not physical damage unless the spell description actually said there was. The whole concept of the illusionist damage was "mind over matter". If any class has become a true victim of power creep, this is one of the top contenders because players have had a hard time being imaginative enough to make the most out of the illusion spell potential, so things were adjusted to make the class easier and more mainstream. There were several articles to this effect in the early days of Dragon and again in the late 80's early 90's if I remember correctly. And since I'm a grognard apparently I'll be sticking to the original concept of the illusionist.

[jdizzy001]

I too allow illusionists to heal. The essay about illusion magic in the CKG is pretty convoluted, but in a nutshell it says, illusion magic is as real as arcane magic. Fine, whatever, it works. I gave up on the whole, real/fake healing. However, that being said, I forgo the saving throw and allow the illusionists magic to award temp HP. This has nothing to do with fake or real magic, I just want illusionist healing spells to be different from cleric healing spells *AND* I don't like the idea of spending a spell slot to heal someone with the off chance that they will see through the real illusion and fail to receive the healing they need.

[mgtremaine]

Far easier to change the name of the class. That will solve almost all the problems. Insert you favorite new class name (mentalist, sorcerer, adept, psychic, etc....)

I like the class in C&C it's got a great tool box and is fun.

-Mike

[Rigon]

Far easier to change the name of the class. That will solve almost all the problems. Insert you favorite new class name (mentalist, sorcerer, adept, psychic, etc....)

I like the class in C&C it's got a great tool box and is fun.

-Mike

That's what I did.

R-

[Treebore]

I'd be open to calling it a different name, but I've never been a fan of Illusionists being able to heal. The only reason I even go with it is because of how effective the "Placebo Effect" is in real life, so with magic, I figure it works. Assuming, of course, they fail their save versus the Illusion to believe it works in the first place. IE completely buy into "The Placebo Effect".

[slimykuotoan]

I guess for me, healing has mostly been in the area of clerics, or the divine.

I like this, and prefer the party seek the nearest temple for assistance as opposed to searching the town for the nearest illusionist.

But it's tradition for me more than anything..