Ghast ~ cold iron vulnerability

[Tadhg]

This was missing from the earlier M&Ts. Does anyone know if this had been added to the latest book? And if so, was is the penalty?

Many thanks,

Rhu.

[Kayolan]

I'm looking at my flip book, 4th printing of M&T... nothing.

Question is, was this left out on error or on purpose?

[Tadhg]

Methinks it's an error because other monsters have their vulnerabilities listed and explained.

I'll probably just house rule it based on the D&D monster version.

And then, what is cold iron ~ any iron even if it's in an alloy like steel.

Or is it the cold iron in folklore (as mentioned in Wikepedia) that can repel ghosts and other supernatural creatures?

[Go0gleplex]

I've always understood "Cold Iron" to be non-forged, cold-worked iron. Pretty much nonn-tempered and brittle as heck so it isn't suitable for use in most combat. And yes, it is especially damaging to fey and spirit creatures such as ghosts and yokai.

[mmbutter]

I just did a search on the PDF of the latest M&T. There are *no* creatures listed with a vulnerability to cold iron.

[Tadhg]

I just did a search on the PDF of the latest M&T. There are *no* creatures listed with a vulnerability to cold iron.

Thanks.

Errata then!

[Traveller]

Cold iron wasn't described anywhere in the game, so in deleting the vulnerability the note I gave to the Trolls was to change the vulnerability to something that is just as scarce. In fact, the ghast was the only creature in the game that had that vulnerability, and I assumed the Trolls would use something like mithril or adamantite as a substitute.

They took the third option and removed the vulnerability entirely. Removing it actually makes sense when you compare it to the AD&D ghast. In AD&D, you had to use cold iron as a material component when casting a protection from evil that would work on a ghast. The C&C ghast doesn't have any mention of protection circles in its writeup at all, thus the vulnerability was a SRD leftover.

Not errata.

[Tadhg]

So, it isn't in the latest M&T then?

[Omote]

Weapons made from cold iron do and extra 1d6 damage to all creatures of undead origin in my games. I can;t remember if I got that idea from the Ghast in the M&T or from 3E. But it makes it fun for players to find objects made of different materials that have differing effects in the game, at least, rather minor effects.

~O

[Kayolan]

There is a mention of iron weapons in Monsters & Treasure of Aihrde, under the general information concerning demons:

IRON WEAKNESS: All demons have a weakness to iron. They cannot cross it, and when struck with weapons of pure iron, the weapon gains an additional +2 to-hit and 1d6 points of damage.

[Omote]

Of course Kayolan and his avatar would see that!

~O

[Traveller]

@Rhuvein: It's not in the latest printing of M&T. The base game (PHB/M&T) had no mention of cold iron anywhere in it that I was aware of in editing with the exception of the ghast. Since there was nothing about how cold iron worked in game, having a creature vulnerable to that substance made no sense. M&ToA is a different story. Having a creature with a vulnerability to cold iron in that book makes perfect sense since there is something in it about how cold iron works.

For the record, I was mistaken regarding the vulnerability being a d20 SRD holdover. In fact, the d20 SRD has no mention of cold iron anywhere within the writeup.

[Tadhg]

Thanks for the info, Trav ~ I'll have to check out M&ToA.

And thanks to everyone else for posting.

[Kayolan]

Of course Kayolan and his avatar would see that!

~O

[Kayolan]

And thanks to everyone else for posting.

Hey, hoping to see you in Slimy's game

[Tadhg]

And thanks to everyone else for posting.

Hey, hoping to see you Slimy's game

Thanks. Just waiting to see which day he is looking at!

[Captain_K]

Didn't we have a similar thread on the druid and its use of special metals.. there's some words in the druid write up that read carefully and interpreted literally really restrict their use of metals...

[Traveller]

I don't recall if such a conversation exists. However, druids can't use beaten steel or bronze, and it makes perfect sense that they can't. Steel is iron with carbon added while bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Both require a forge to produce, and thus a druid would not be able to use them, even if he could beat them into shape.

Copper and iron are relatively soft metals, easily beaten into shape. Thus they are best suited for cold forging. Cold forging by definition eschews heat, requiring nothing more than a hammer, anvil, patience, and skill. The weapons produced will by default not be as well made as steel weaponry, but they will be just as effective.

Just one thing to keep in mind. The mention of cold forged iron and copper in the druid description is flavor text. In game terms there is no penalty for using a cold forged weapon. You could assign a penalty of course, using the Expert Weapons and Armor rules in the PHB and flipping the numbers around, but to do so unduly penalizes the druid for being a druid.

[Tadhg]

I've decided to go with the vulnerability to iron ~ +1 to hit and an extra 1d4 damage. Ghasts are pretty tough and if a party meets a pack of 'em, they could use the help (assuming they have an iron weapon ~ which they don't!)

[Treebore]

D20 3E SRD:

Iron, Cold
This iron, mined deep underground, known for its effectiveness against fey creatures, is forged at a lower temperature to preserve its delicate properties. Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts. Also, any magical enhancements cost an additional 2,000 gp.

Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron. An arrow could be made of cold iron, but a quarterstaff could not.

A double weapon that has only half of it made of cold iron increases its cost by 50%.

Cold iron has 30 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.

Plus, in 3E, any weapon made with any special material simply bypassed any resistances a given creature had to weapons. So in C&C, it would simply mean a cold iron weapon does normal damage, despite any resistances the creature would otherwise have.

Edit: Assuming they even have a vulnerability to cold iron mentioned.

[Omote]

I was just watching the director's cut of Ridley Scott's Legend today. Nice little tidbit that Gump tries to escape the dungeon cell that he and the "adventuring party" fell into, he couldn't manipulate the lock because it was made of iron.

Considering the Trolls love of that movie, perhaps elves and/or fae should be susceptible to iron or cold-forged iron.

~O