Encumbrance of Coins?

erc1971 · Post by **erc1971** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:45 pm

Does anyone know what the EV is for coins?

Thanks,

Eric

Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:50 pm

I go for 50 coins = 1 lbs = 1 EV although, for more realism, you should apparently make that 10 coins (not very practical in terms of gameplay)!
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:18 pm

To keep it as simple as possible, while remaining detailed enough to account for EV, I do 100 coins = 1 EV.

The 50 / lb. = 1 EV is probably more accurate, but becomes a chore for PCs to carry money. I keep it "fantasic," and therefor do as described above.

.........................................Omote

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Jason Vey · Post by **Jason Vey** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:31 pm

Omote wrote:
To keep it as simple as possible, while remaining detailed enough to account for EV, I do 100 coins = 1 EV.

The 50 / lb. = 1 EV is probably more accurate, but becomes a chore for PCs to carry money. I keep it "fantasic," and therefor do as described above.

.........................................Omote

FPQ

The easy answer to the 100:1 ratio is that gold may be the monetary standard, just like it (theoretically) is in the modern United States...but the money is not, in fact, literally gold. Perhaps it's pieces of mithril that are representing gold values...and mithril weighs a fraction of gold. Or even nickel or brass might be used. Hell, in modern society we tend to use paper and nickel for almost everything.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:09 pm

Ah true. It would be neat to descirbe the gold coins that a party finds as various shapes and sizes weighing different amounts. Regardless, they all seem to be gold pieces and would scpend as such.

Taking this another way, I often have differing coins in my games that represent different amounts like the 20, 50 and 100 GP coins. For example, in my Rhuinlands campaign setting the elven coins are minted from the purest silver, are rare in human realms and generally valued much higher then they are actually worth (20GP each). In the elven realms, where money isn't as wildly used anyways the elven coin is only equivalent to 1GP in value.

..........................................Omote

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irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:30 pm

Quote:
Hell, in modern society we tend to use paper and nickel for almost everything.

That's because we have a Federal Reserve (or whatever they call it in your country) that strictly controls the printing of money. Cash is scarce (and the scarcity creates value) because the Secret Service will bust a cap in your ass if you try printing off a few $100 bills with your inkjet.

In pre-modern societies, gold is valuable for the same reason cash is valuable in a modern society: because it is scarce (you can't print gold), it won't rust away like iron or copper (so you don't lose value), and because its divisible without losing value (50 cents is half of $1, and two halves of a gold piece is just as valuable as a whole gold piece, while a diamond cracked in half is worth nothing). These three qualities make it possible to conduct trade.

Value then is determined solely by weight. A fixed value/EV ratio makes perfect sense. You may actually have 37 actual pieces of gold, but (because of their size/weight), they might be worth 10 or 500 "imperial standard" gold pieces. This "standard" gold piece is the price listed in the PHB, and in a campaign world is probably the official currency of the most widely travelled mercantile power (Sembia or Amn in Forgotten Realms; Ergoth in Dragonlance; etc.).

Short of magical enforcement against counterfeiting, there will be no paper or base-metal (such as nickel) currency in a medieval setting. There's no way to prevent the neighboring kingdom from minting piles of your currency and sending the paper/base metal-money economy into a tailspin through staggering inflation.
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irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:34 pm

Omote wrote:
In my Rhuinlands campaign setting the elven coins are minted from the purest silver, are rare in human realms and generally valued much higher then they are actually worth (20GP each). In the elven realms, where money isn't as wildly used anyways the elven coin is only equivalent to 1GP in value.

..........................................Omote

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What's that I smell? Smells like an arbitrage opportunity to me! I think I'll be buying something in human-land that the elves need, and do a little side-business in caravan work. Cash only, please.
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Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:27 am

So..I guess that means there is no rule in the PHB? I thought there was.

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:12 am

irda ranger wrote:
What's that I smell? Smells like an arbitrage opportunity to me! I think I'll be buying something in human-land that the elves need, and do a little side-business in caravan work. Cash only, please.

Even in Fantasy...The Mob is everywhere.
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:11 pm

Quote:
irda ranger wrote:

Omote wrote:

In my Rhuinlands campaign setting the elven coins are minted from the purest silver, are rare in human realms and generally valued much higher then they are actually worth (20GP each). In the elven realms, where money isn't as wildly used anyways the elven coin is only equivalent to 1GP in value.

..........................................Omote

FPQ

What's that I smell? Smells like an arbitrage opportunity to me! I think I'll be buying something in human-land that the elves need, and do a little side-business in caravan work. Cash only, please.

Even in Fantasy...The Mob is everywhere.

This is actually the base of many of my games, well not the mob part, unless you count greedy merchants, or local leaders as mob.....

Dwarves make great weapons, but boy is it hard to grow food in a cave, Elves have the best wood but not much in the way metal ore, halflings are good really good at growing food but they are halflings so...

A smart person gets things moving to wear they are needed at a little profit and then play with the coins to make sure you have made said profit.

As to the weight of the coin, I'd never sat down & though it out completely, 1:50 seams a bit high but though 1:10 is more historically accurate it is cruel to the adventurer that just cleared out a dragons hoard....

I've used the historic Knights Templar & jewish banking but always worried that someone would try & forge the documents. Luckily I've always had good or non-greedy players so never faced that problem.
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irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:16 pm

Lurker wrote:
Elves have the best wood ...

No kidding! Why do you think there are so many half-elves?
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Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:30 pm

Quote:
Lurker wrote:

Elves have the best wood ...

No kidding! Why do you think there are so many half-elves?

I didn't see that one coming

I guess I need more coffee! Thanks for the good laugh
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:08 pm

I use my own system, based on real life roman coins. There are 118 roman gold coins in a pound, so I rounded it to 100 and that is what I have used for my coins ever since. Which would be about 15 years now.

I don't go with the HUGE coin thing that the Spanish and others did later.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:59 pm

pineappleleader wrote:
Even in Fantasy...The Mob is everywhere.

This could always make for great little city adventure. The "mob" is minting elven 20GP silver coins and the local counting house needs it stopped immediatly! Gather your swords for a good ole' fashioned beat-down!

.............................................Omote

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irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:07 pm

Omote wrote:
This could always make for great little city adventure. The "mob" is minting elven 20GP silver coins and the local counting house needs it stopped immediatly! Gather your swords for a good ole' fashioned beat-down!

.............................................Omote

FPQ

Except that I didn't suggest anything illegal. Buy low, sell high. What's the problem here?
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:08 pm

No problem. But I can;t remember the last time an Irda Ranger would be so well versed in simple economics?!
........................................Omote

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irda ranger · Post by **irda ranger** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:36 pm

Omote wrote:
No problem. But I can;t remember the last time an Irda Ranger would be so well versed in simple economics?!
........................................Omote

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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:10 am

Like Treebore, I base my coinage off of real coins, though I don't use the same coins he does. I've tweaked the coinage system to my tastes, which while leading to additional paperwork for me, fixes something that in any set of D&D rules or C&C, I consider an annoyance.

My two lowest coins are made of tin and copper respectively. 50 coins of these types weigh 1 pound (EV 1 using my encumbrance system).

Thirty pieces of silver (where is Judas?) weigh 1 pound.

Fifteen pieces of gold weigh 1 pound.
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Roaky · Post by **Roaky** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:06 pm

Page 40 of the Player's Handbook states that "all coins equate to about one ounce in weight."

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:27 pm

Welcome Roaky to this wacky Crusade.

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:55 pm

Roaky wrote:
Page 40 of the Player's Handbook states that "all coins equate to about one ounce in weight."

That is a default until (if ever) the CK and the group wants something different.

Like I ended up basing mine off the real world Roman coins.

Dristram · Post by **Dristram** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:39 am

Roaky wrote:
Page 40 of the Player's Handbook states that "all coins equate to about one ounce in weight."

Ding! I knew I read something about coins somewhere.

So, would that mean approximately 16 coins equate to 1EV and a belt pouch could hold 44 coins or 3EV worth since it lowers the EV by 2? If that's correct, I'd probably rule 50 coins cap. for a small belt pouch.

Welcome to the Crusade Roaky!

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:43 am

My tin coin has no real world equivalent, though tin coins themselves have been used in many countries.

My copper coin is based on a 1847 Hawaiian Kenata penny.

My silver and gold coins are based on Austrailian commemorative coins in the appropriate metals and weights.

Presumably unlike Treebore, my coinage assumes that there is a level of technology or magic sufficiently advanced to permit the creation of coins of precise and nearly uniform size. Three of the four coins are the same diameter (the copper piece is smaller). Three of the four coins are the same thickness (the tin piece is thicker). The coins ended up the way they did because I started off with specific weights (50 coins to the pound, 30 to the pound, 15 to the pound) and built the coin sizes around that.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:19 am

Yeah, Roman coins a pretty roughly made. Roughly the same in diameter with pretty crude stamping. No "ribbing" to prevent shaving of coins, etc...

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:05 am

irda ranger wrote:
Except that I didn't suggest anything illegal. Buy low, sell high. What's the problem here?

Base Capitalism. It is contrary to the spirit of Feudalism. It does away with the feudal aristocracy. It destroys the Knight Class in C&C. It leads to mass production and also destroys the true craftsman.

Next you'll be wanting to "give" Knighthoods to every merchant who makes big bucks. Then merchants will be demanding to run the Kingdom. Bad idea.
(humorous post)

EDIT: Back to the original question. As Kobolds never have any money anyway, I dont know how much coins weight.
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Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:39 am

Treebore wrote:
Yeah, Roman coins a pretty roughly made. Roughly the same in diameter with pretty crude stamping. No "ribbing" to prevent shaving of coins, etc...

Believe me, I know how crude Roman coinage is, as I own an Antoninionus from the reign of Gallienus (253-268). Compared to the ancient Greek bronze tetradrachm from Maroneia, Thrace I own, the Antoninionus is positively futuristic.

This is an example of the Roman coin I own:
Obverse
Reverse

And here is the Greek coin.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:29 am

My favorite is actually a copper Romulus and Remus. That greek coin looks awesome though. Artisitic.

I really like the new US $1.00 coins that came out last Friday.

Traveller · Post by **Traveller** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:34 pm

Think we might finally see the end of the dollar bill now? Sheesh, Canada hasn't had a dollar bill in twenty years.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:40 pm

I'd still rather not carry change. But I like the new $1 coin. Let's hope this one sticks around, eh!

..........................................Omote

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Metathiax · Post by **Metathiax** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:15 pm

Traveller wrote:
Think we might finally see the end of the dollar bill now? Sheesh, Canada hasn't had a dollar bill in twenty years.

We've also changed our 2$ bills for coins since 1996...
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