EV question

[Lexfire]

I just want to understand the EV for worn items prior to starting our new campaign. After we equip and start we will use common sense.

For a worn backpack with EV 8

Does that mean up to 8 items max. with a total individual EV of 8 fits in the pack (this seems to be correct)

or

Does it mean that up to 8 items whose EV is 7 or less for each item fits in a BP - in other words can 8 (EV 7) items fit in a backpack for EV 2 -

Page 67 - PHB 6th edition

WORN AND CAPACITY OBJECTS
Items that are designed to carry and redistribute the weight and
bulk of other items are called Capacity Items. Capacity Items can
carry a number of items equal to their Capacity. Furthermore,
a Capacity Item cannot carry any item whose EV is equal to or
greater than it’s Capacity rating. So a Backpack, with a Capacity
of 8, can carry up to 8 items whose EVs are 7 or less.
Items that are carried in a Capacity item do not have their
EV included in the character’s Encumbrance Total. Instead,
the character only notes the EV of the Capacity item. So the
character wearing an EV 2 Backpack that has a Bedroll (EV
3), hammer (EV 2), 50 nails (EV 1), and one torch (EV 1)
has five items in the Backpack (and thus has space for three
more items). The character’s Encumbrance Rating is only
increased by 2 when they carry the Backpack, ignoring the
EVs of the items inside of it.

[Treebore]

A back pack can carry 8 items, and EACH of those 8 items cannot have an EV of 8 or more. Each items EV must be 7 or less. So you can have a total EV value of 56 inside the back pack, and only the 8 of the backpack itself counts against you. If you carry it, the backpack EV goes to 10.

At least that is how I translated it into English I could understand.

Their example obviously sucks, because for some reason they say an EV 2 backpack, which I think is actually supposed to be an 8, not a 2, since that makes the rest actually make sense. Because if you actually follow their previously stated rules, EV 2 and above items CANNOT even be put in a EV 2 Backpack. So I am pretty sure that is an editing error, and should be an 8. Which is further proven, I think, when they state the total number of items that can fit in the back pack, which is 8, not 2.

[Lexfire]

What also threw me off is that the example they use for a backpack lists items that are below EV 8 and nowhere near EV 56. I would suspect an example would have had an EV somewhere north of EV 8 with no one item of 8 or more.

So the character wearing an EV 2 Backpack that has a Bedroll (EV3), hammer (EV 2), 50 nails (EV 1), and one torch (EV 1)
has five items in the Backpack (and thus has space for three more items).

[Treebore]

So the character wearing an EV 2 Backpack that has a Bedroll (EV3), hammer (EV 2), 50 nails (EV 1), and one torch (EV 1)
has five items in the Backpack (and thus has space for three more items).

No, this is the part that is completely wrong. Only an EV 8 backpack could carry those items. Recall that the backpack CANNOT have a number of items within it greater than its CAPACITY rating. It also cannot have items with an EV value equal to or greater than that of the back pack inside of it. So an EV 8 backpack can carry a maximum of 8 items, none of which can have an individual EV value of 8 or higher, they must be 7 or lower.

So this example should read:


"...the character wearing an EV EIGHT Backpack that has a Bedroll (EV3), hammer (EV 2), 50 nails (EV 1), and one torch (EV 1)
has FOUR items in the Backpack (and thus has space for FOUR more items)."

[Buttmonkey]

I strongly urge ignoring the encumbrance system altogether. If you really want to use encumbrance, check out the encumbrance rules for Lamentations of the Flame Princess (free no-art version available through this link). LotFP has extraordinarily good encumbrance rules (unlike *cough*C&C*cough*).

[serleran]

Just draw a vaguely human-like thing with legs, arms, a head, etc. Like Diablo. And a "reserve" of X boxes. Everything has a number of boxes it occupies -- horizontal or vertical. If the player can get it to fit, they can carry it.

[Lexfire]

So using the C&C rules as written a player could stuff 8 suits of Full Plate EV4 into a backpack for EV2 when worn. Just doesn't seem feasible.

[serleran]

So using the C&C rules as written a player could stuff 8 suits of Full Plate EV4 into a backpack for EV2 when worn. Just doesn't seem feasible.

Sure, if you can manage to fit them into the backpack. The rules do mention something about "common sense."

[Go0gleplex]

I gotta go with Buttmonkey on this one in part about ignoring the EV system. My house rules use item weight and common sense. I found it to be simpler.

[Traveller]

Here's my encumbrance rules, which are based upon and an expansion of those found in RuneQuest 2d Edition. For this discussion, I've converted to gold pieces where appropriate. Coinage in my game is copper-based, and the copper coin weighs 1/3 ounces. Feel free to fold, spindle, or mutilate as desired.

Encumbrance
Each item in Castles & Crusades has an encumbrance value based on the concept of how easily the item can be carried or used. Items that can be carried or used easily in one hand (e.g. a sword, chalk, lockpick set or rope) have an EV of 1. Items that require two hands to carry or use (e.g. polearms) have an EV of 2. Items requiring an arm to use (e.g. a shield), regardless of whether they only require one hand to carry or not, have an EV of 2. These general guidelines can be used to determine the EV of any item listed in the Castles & Crusades equipment lists.

A capacity item is an item that is worn or carried that can carry other items in it. The items that can be placed in a capacity item are limited to items with an EV of 1. The number of items in a capacity item determines its EV for purposes of encumbrance calculations. In Castles & Crusades capacity items can be broken down into worn items such as backpacks, belt pouches and shoulder packs; and carried items such as baskets, barrels, chests and sacks. The EV of a capacity item is determined by the number of items within it. If the capacity item is empty, or the number of items within the capacity item is less than the capacity item’s EV when empty, the EV is of the item itself. For example a backpack with four items in it would have an EV of 4. That same backpack with one item in it would have an EV of 2 since 2 is the EV of the backpack itself.

Worn items: The backpack has a carrying capacity of 8 and an EV of 2 when empty. Small belt pouches and spell component pouches both have a capacity of 1 while the large belt pouch has a capacity of 2. All pouches have an EV of 1 when empty. Shoulder packs have a carrying capacity of 10 and an EV of 2 when empty.

Carried items: The basket has a carrying capacity of 2 and an EV of 1 when empty. The small chest has a carrying capacity of 6 and an EV when empty of 2. The large chest has a carrying capacity of 8 and an EV of 2 when empty. The small sack has a capacity of 6 while the large sack has a capacity of 8. Both sacks, regardless of size, have an EV of 1 when empty.

Encumbrance Rating: To determine the character's encumbrance rating, add together the character's Strength and Constitution scores and divide the result by two. The maximum number of items a character may carry comfortably is limited by the character's Strength score. For example, a character with a Strength of 11 and a Constitution of 17 may only carry 11 items comfortably, even though the average of the two characteristics is 14. A character with the scores reversed (i.e. a Strength of 17 and a Constitution of 11) can only carry 14 items comfortably because while he has the brawn to carry 17 items he simply doesn't have the stamina to carry such a load for any length of time. The absolute maximum the character can carry is equal to 1-1/2 times his Strength rating.

The character can carry additional items on his person — up to his absolute maximum — at a corresponding loss of mobility (see the Encumbrance chart in the Players Handbook). Some characters will be penalized due to a low ER rating unless they carry fewer items than their ER score. For example, a character with an ER of 4 would be considered Normal at 2, Light at 3, Moderate at 4, Heavy at 5, and Overburdened at 6.

Code: Select all

ENCUMBRANCE
Rating Normal Light Moderate Heavy Overburdened
  3      1      2      3       4        5
  4      2      3      4       5        6
  5      4      5      6       7        8
  6      5      6      7       8        9
  7      7      8      9       10       11
  8      8      9      10      11       12
  9      9      10     11      12       14
  10     10     11     12      13       15
  11     11     12     13      15       17
  12     12     13     14      16       18
  13     13     14     16      18       20
  14     14     15     17      19       21
  15     15     17     19      21       23
  16     16     18     20      22       24
  17     17     19     21      23       26
  18     18     20     22      24       27

NOTE: This chart is simply to eliminate having to do the math.

Armor, helms and clothing, being evenly distributed over the body, do not affect the character's Encumbrance Rating.

Weight Equivalents: A character may carry a maximum of 100 gold pieces times his overburdened ER without any other encumbrance. The 100 gold pieces are assumed to be in a sack and thus count as one item, weighing approximately 6 pounds.

Ad-hoc Encumbrance: Ad-hoc encumbrance is determined using the general guidelines above.

Mounts: To determine the carrying capacity of a horse or other mount, take the weight rating for the mount given in its entry in Monsters & Treasure and divide by 6, rounding to the nearest whole number. This is the number of items a mount can carry or pull behind it.

Barding does not affect the carrying capacity of a horse or other mount.

[Treebore]

That comes across far more sensibly than what is in the PHB.

[Traveller]

Well, as you may or may not remember, I always disliked the encumbrance system in the game. I didn't like the fact it wasn't based on a real-world measurement plus it was always too fiddly, especially with worn and capacity objects. Add on ad-hoc encumbrance and you have what I considered a mess. The revision done for the 5th and 6th printings not only established what 1 point of EV actually is (160 coins, or 10 pounds) but also did away with the fiddly bits.

It's not perfect, but the current encumbrance rules I feel are a lot better than what was in earlier printings. What I provided above is the house rules I came up with to fix encumbrance when the 4th Printing was still extant. The only change between then and now was to remove some redundant rules on determining ad-hoc encumbrance, as the guidance given at the beginning is more than sufficient.

[Captain_K]

Simple method, Make each player sketch themselves with all items where they are... don't care if its a stick figure. Fun to do and encumbrance becomes obvious to all and the group basically self corrects or is forced to correct when its time to move.. make them run for their lives... "you don't have to be the fastest, just the least encumbered...."