[House Rule] Weapon Damage Advancement (aka, BtH based Dmg)

[irda ranger]

Hello all:

Following is a house rule for my campaign. In summary, the "base damage" of any given weapon is listed in the Equipment section of the PHB, but this damage is modified based on the BtH of the wielder. Not only is the better swordsman more likely to hit you, his blows are more telling, and often fatal.

First a couple notes about my house rules:
Hit Points Scale Faster than Damage

This is true in all campaigns, as well as mine. It can lead to very, very long fights at higher levels, and high level opponents trade blow after blow. Thematically, I prefer that a fight between two high-level opponents have the possibility of being over just as quickly, and decisively, as a battle between two low-level opponents. For this to happen high-level fighters have to be able to wear each other down quickly.

I also like the idea that a high-level Fighter can fell even an ogre in a single blow of his axe.
Magic Weapons do not give +X to damage

There is no such thing as a "common" longsword +5. Weapons may have particular magical abilities, such as glowing in the presence of orcs or granting a paladin magic resistance, but there's no +2 to Bth and Dmg. This rule is really the only way (other than weapon specialization) to do more damage. For anyone who wants to adopt this rule, but use the standard magic weapon rules, should consider advancing the damage correspondingly less.
Armor grants DR

A little DR goes a long way, so a fighter has to do more damage to compensate. For anyone who wants to adopt this rule, but use the standard Armor-as-AC rule, should consider advancing the damage correspondingly less.
Shields are Very Important

The only way a character can get the benefit of the highest damage values on this chart are by forgoing the benefits of a shield. IMC shields are integral to defending yourself from missile weapons (only monks can parry an arrow) and from certain saving throws (not even monks can parry fire). The character who decides to wield a two-handed sword or to dual-wield so as to get more damage output leaves themselves very exposed.

Also, two thematic points:
Mages should have a reason to be afraid

This is just my opinion. Now they have a reason.
1st level characters are already Heroes, and a King's Champion is usually 10th

20th level anything is "Epic" in the Hercules or Achilles sense of the word. They shape the course of history, astriding the world like giants. They shake the pillars of heaven, and the world to its foundations. I expect my PC's to be heroes from day 1 (a 1st level PC should be better than other men, and the equal of any three orcs). I also expect them to be very afraid of anyone more than three levels above them.

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The Rule: All weapons have a base damage listed in the Equipment section. Characters advance this damage a number of steps according to the tables below.

[quote]Code:


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I am also considering "smoothing" this advancement by introducing intermediate steps at levels 4, 10 and 16.
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[DangerDwarf]

I really like the idea. This can assist in making combat more streamlined in higher level play. One of the things I noticed when running my high level DL campaign with C&C was that sometimes combat could drag out because of the higher HP's involved. This would definately allow the CK to keep the pace feeling much more quick and gritty.

[irda ranger]

irda ranger wrote:
I am also considering "smoothing" this advancement by introducing intermediate steps at levels 4, 10 and 16.

I did.

See the new table here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 96KynePYRQ

Note that the last step-up is only possible for a 19-20th level Fighter who is specialized in the Two-handed sword or Greataxe. There's a price to pay for foregoing a shield, but if they're willing to pay it, they get the big damage.
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[Fizz]

irda ranger wrote:

I'm going to try something similar, but it won't be based on BtH values. Instead, it will be part of the fighter's specialization. Instead of the default +1 damage, it'll increase the damage die.

The problem once you get to 1d12 or 2d6 damage, is that the average damage jumps suddenly afterwards. What i'm going to do is go from 1d12 to 1d6+1d8. Then 2d8, then 1d10+1d8, etc. This gives a more uniform progression of damage.

Now maybe you want that big step, but I've just never liked those big jumps in average damage.

-Fizz

[irda ranger]

Fizz wrote:
I'm going to try something similar, but it won't be based on BtH values. Instead, it will be part of the fighter's specialization. Instead of the default +1 damage, it'll increase the damage die.

I use BtH so that Paladins, Rangers, etc. can join in on the fun. Fighters are just better at it, since they have a better BtH progression. I replace weapon specialization with a free +1 step-up for the Fighter's weapon of choice. You can see from my NPC Write-up of Beowulf that he has advanced 7 steps in the battleaxe, which simply isn't possible for any non-Fighter.

Beowulf write-up: http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... llordgames

Fizz wrote:
The problem once you get to 1d12 or 2d6 damage, is that the average damage jumps suddenly afterwards. What i'm going to do is go from 1d12 to 1d6+1d8. Then 2d8, then 1d10+1d8, etc. This gives a more uniform progression of damage.

Now maybe you want that big step, but I've just never liked those big jumps in average damage.

-Fizz

Be sure to check out my revised table. I smoothed out the progression by introducing smaller steps every 3 BtH, instead of bigger steps every 6.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 96KynePYRQ

2d6 now advances to 2d8, a change from (2-12/ ave 7) to (2-16/ ave 9), a much smaller bump.

As a matter of preference I really don't like disimilar dice (e.g., 1d10+1d8) on the same damage roll.
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[johns]

I decided to extend the PC's critical hit range as their BtH increased. So, it starts at a natural "20". Then, for every five point of BtH, the critical hit range increases by one. So, at +5 BtH it's "19-20", at +10 BtH it's "18-20".

[Dristram]

Looks nice IR!

Fizz wrote:
I'm going to try something similar, but it won't be based on BtH values. Instead, it will be part of the fighter's specialization. Instead of the default +1 damage, it'll increase the damage die.

The problem once you get to 1d12 or 2d6 damage, is that the average damage jumps suddenly afterwards. What i'm going to do is go from 1d12 to 1d6+1d8. Then 2d8, then 1d10+1d8, etc. This gives a more uniform progression of damage.

Heh, I had done a very similar thing. Here was my chart:

Code:

[cheeplives]

Wouldn't it just be easier to allow PCs to add their Base Attack Bonus to their Damage rolls as well? At least on Average, you'll have the Fighter keeping up with the average roll for most of your "step" combinations...

using your system a 18th level fighter would have a 4d8 damage longsword, which is an average of +18 damage (max of +32 damage). If you just let the fighter add in the +18 to hit, you've basically done the same thing as having the scaling damage without having to scale the damage.

Then again, this makes damage a lot more predictable, I guess... and some people like unpredictable damage, maybe? I know I'd be more angry if my 18th level fighter did 4 pts of damage plus strength than I would if it did 19 points of damage plus strength for a bad roll. This has always been my problem in some ways with variable damage systems: you're basically evaluating the effectiveness of the attack twice, once to hit and once for damage. It's not a bad way of doing it, but I feel like it's a bit of double jeopardy. YMMV.

[irda ranger]

Rolling dice is fun. We all know that the average damage of 4d8 is 18, but we're all hoping for the 32. We also like to wince good naturedly as others talk about the "night of many 1's". I think the best part of high level fireballs is the sound of all those d6's hitting the table. It's part of the game.

The trick, of course, is remembering it's a game. Rolling 4 damage at 20th level is something to laugh and curse at, but not get angry about.
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[Dristram]

And rolling more dice allows the fighter types to enjoy what the wizards do with their spells.

[Moorcrys]

Thanks for posting that Irda... I'm thieving it for my game. 8)
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Moorcrys

[irda ranger]

Moorcrys wrote:
Thanks for posting that Irda... I'm thieving it for my game. 8)

You're welcome to it. Make sure you see the revised table.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... 96KynePYRQ

It's also worth noting that I have house ruled "Weapon Specialization" so that it give a free step-up in damage to the chosen weapon, instead of a flat +2.
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Check out my Iron C&C House Rules: The Tombs of Akrasia