Missile Weapons

[PuppetMaster]

Forgive me if this has already been addressed elsewhere, as I am new to the site and the game.
In reference to firing bows, I don't find anything giving the rate of fire. Many systems list it as 2 shots per round, but I have been playing it as 1 per round. Does anyone know if there is anything that says different?

[Go0gleplex]

C&C uses 1 shot per round. Though I do vaguely remember reading something about one of the bow types doing twice that or something. I would need to go back and look if one of the other guys doesn't pop up with it themselves.

[PuppetMaster]

Thank you!

[serleran]

1 / round, unless noted otherwise, or using optional Rate of Fire rules from the CKG (if I remember right.)

Personally, bows are overpowered with multiple shots -- they already get first strike (when readied) and have massive range. They don't need "deals triple damage, too."

[Treebore]

Only two ways to get more than one attack per round come to mind. 1 is to play a fighter and make it to whatever level it is they get two attacks per round, with whatever weapon they choose to use, or the Haste spell.

[serleran]

Only two ways to get more than one attack per round come to mind. 1 is to play a fighter and make it to whatever level it is they get two attacks per round, with whatever weapon they choose to use, or the Haste spell.

Or, a monk.

[Treebore]

Only two ways to get more than one attack per round come to mind. 1 is to play a fighter and make it to whatever level it is they get two attacks per round, with whatever weapon they choose to use, or the Haste spell.

Or, a monk.

True, but I think that is with just his "body" and designated melee weapons. I'd need to read it again with an eye towards missile weapons to decide on that.

[alcyone]

Note also you can shoot heavy crossbows every round in C&C.

[serleran]

Only two ways to get more than one attack per round come to mind. 1 is to play a fighter and make it to whatever level it is they get two attacks per round, with whatever weapon they choose to use, or the Haste spell.

Or, a monk.

True, but I think that is with just his "body" and designated melee weapons. I'd need to read it again with an eye towards missile weapons to decide on that.

It probably doesn't say anything about missile weapons. I don't remember, honestly, but in any event I would allow with certain, classic, martial art weapons like dart, shuriken, and maybe javelin / spear. Oh, and flying guillotines. Have to allow that.

[Lurker]

First, puppet master, let me say welcome to the boards.

Now as you can see, a simple question can bring up thought provoking ideas around here ....

Like said before, unless using a special rule, by the book bows only get 1 shot per round. Also like said before, that still has advantages. first shot if readied, extra range, so you could still get 2 3 maybe 4 shots before someone closes on you, and yes even heavy crossbows get 1 per round - unlike older versions of D&D.

Now, that said, it is easy enough to house rule and modify as needed. But, I'm sure you'll hear this more than once, don't fiddle with the rules too much until you have played for a bit and are comfortable with how things work. I say this because I'm a horrid (well was when I gmed) fiddler and love tweaking and fine tuning rules. But, 9 out of 10 times C&C doesn't need much more than a touch here and there. Plus, changing a simple rule may have unintended consequences for you.

If I was to house rule it, I'd say you need a successful dex check to be able to fire twice and the 2nd shot is at a neg (what -2 nothing worse than -4, not sure).

Now, to the interesting bit of the conversation ... monk and thrown weapons ... I never thought of that before .... I like the idea of it for true monkish weapons, but that is to oriental specific for my taste, so maybe add throwing knives/daggers to the list. For javelins / spears, I don't know, but then remember seeing something about Vikings catching a spear and throwing it back and throwing his spear too, sooooooo in a way there is historic precedence .... As for the flying guillotine ... what is that? It sounds diabolic !

[serleran]

Lurker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_guillotine

Pretty popular among certain Wuxia fans and other, umm, people.

Oh, and the MythBusters tested it -- Plausible. Only for assassination, though, not general combat. But, still... who doesn't want a ranged vorpal weapon?

[Tadhg]

The archer class in the Adventurer's Backpack gets 2 shots per round at 4th level.

I think that is excellent.

Plus, due to improved initiative - if he is holding his bow and an arrow he always wins initiative!

I playtested this class in our recent online game. Fantastic and fun.

[Lurker]

Lurker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_guillotine

Pretty popular among certain Wuxia fans and other, umm, people.

Oh, and the MythBusters tested it -- Plausible. Only for assassination, though, not general combat. But, still... who doesn't want a ranged vorpal weapon?

Cool thanks

I'll have to look up that myth buster . I loved the show but with multiple deployments over the years, there are huge blocks of the show I missed. This must have been one of them.

[trechriron]

The archer class in the Adventurer's Backpack gets 2 shots per round at 4th level. ...

And where would I find this Adventurer's Backpack?

[Omote]

This is the only Adventurer's Backpack that was produced. Doing a quick search, it doesn't seem to be available any longer at the TLG store. This was a stripped down, preview version of what is supposedly coming down the line (which is a true hardbound rules book) to expand C&C.

~O

[Captain_K]

PM, Welcome to the boards.. yep, you get great help here, from the simple and direct answer "1/round".. to the other extreme and rambling thoughts of folks.. keeping with the spirit of both.. here's my two coppers:

CKG is all more or less optional but well thought out "house rules".. many have house rules.. so the hero point from the CKG might let you get off two in one round, for sure the PH is "the rules" and there the fighter gets multiple attacks as does the monk but monk is only open hand (at least in my re-read that is what I got).

Sorry guys I see nothing in the Monk that states multiple attacks with weapons, only open hand... that said I love the idea of any weapon the monk uses is the same as his hands and feet (a weapon is a simple extension of the body).. then expand on that to short ranged weapon use only and finally to drunken master status two wine bottles per round doing d10 and d6.. what a bar fight! Historically, the Chinese Drunken Immortals did it all the time!

[koralas]

This is the only Adventurer's Backpack that was produced. Doing a quick search, it doesn't seem to be available any longer at the TLG store. This was a stripped down, preview version of what is supposedly coming down the line (which is a true hardbound rules book) to expand C&C.

~O

Not so, it is under the Collectors section in the store. The last menu item on the right is More, you can find this section there, here is a direct link - Adventurers Backpack

[Kayolan]

The CKG offers the idea of increasing the rate of fire with bows. The rule is that if you are shooting a bow more than once a round, normally that is a -1 to hit with your first arrow, a -2 to hit with your second, a -4 for the third and finally a -8 to your fourth. "The combatant must announce this before combat and prepare his position, generally by laying arrows out in front of him."

It doesn't say how that's affected if you are a fighter with 2 attacks a round.

Also, the CKG suggests that heavy crossbows only get one shot per two rounds, but "If the crossbowman possesses the necessary clasp and handle on their belt, they can increase the rate of fire of the heavy crossbow to 1 bolt per round."

[PuppetMaster]

Alot of good ideas and thoughts here. I appreciate all the input.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that missile weapons, like bows and slings, probably should be rof of 1 per round. I may do something later on as a house rule, maybe for the Ranger class, or as a racial bonus for Elves, but for now I think I will play pretty close to the rules in the Players Handbook.

[Lurker]

I was thinking on this, and something I did the other night in Rigon's Monday night game kind of clicked for me on this.

My swashbuckler can fight with 2 weapons, getting 2 attacks a round against an opponent when doing so, at the cost of no shield bonus. I killed one monster (after fighting it for a few rounds) with the first attack of that round, but I still had the second attack. Rigon let me make a dex check to pivot, and take a few steps to get in range of another monster trying to eat the barbarian in our party, and take a swing at him.

You could use that for missile weapons. Normally, they get 1 shot a round (1 every 2 for a heavy crossbow) . However, if they prepared for rapid shots - having the arrows out easy access, or the hook and lever on the belt for the x-bow - and make a dex check then they can get a 2nd shot off - 1 every round for the x-bow.

Even then I could see an argument for a negative for the 2nd shot. But not sure if I would considering they had to make the dex check. The check itself opens them up for a failure and even the chance for a 1 with what ever you house rule for a natural fumble (& with the way I roll on roll 20, that is a very distinct risk!)