Recharging wands staves etc

[Lurker]

At the end of the game Monday night, we killed a hobgoblin wizard and got 2 staves off him. We know they are not fully charged, because the bugger rained down fire balls and MM on us over the last few games.

It doesn't effect my character, but it got me wondering (again with spell casers and knowing their powers being a weakness of mine) How can a magic user charge up their handy dandy wand of what ever ? I know some things are inherently use and toss aside - potions, ring of 3 wishes etc - but are all magic user focused items ?

I assume there are various house rules (and would like to hear them to see what the various views are on it) but also what is the rule by the book ?

[Giant2005]

I don't think there is any way of recharging them by the book - aside from simply creating a new one at least. They are effectively just multi-use scrolls/potions.

[Treebore]

Good question, one that has been discussed here in the forums before. Hopefully someone will be able to summon those discussions back up.

[mmbutter]

Per "Monsters & Treasure":

Further, items such as wands or staves have charges that can be replenished. For items that require spell replenishment, the item is assumed to be able to absorb and store the spells. The caster must simply cast them into it. However, these items can only absorb one spell per day.

[Go0gleplex]

MM's quote aside, I use the same method we used when playing 1e D&D. Enchant Item and then as many castings of what you are recharging as desired. Though the more that is cast the greater the chance of catastrophic failure. First casting was 100% success with a exponentially increasing -2% chance per additional charge.

[Captain_K]

I love giving out wands and staffs with very small qty of charges so they get them for a bit then they go away.. this is true of items with spells above my groups level.. but when they can re-charge or pay to have them recharged. I like something "cost" more then just dump spells into them in your free time so your wand is up to full at all times.

Enchant Item is not longer a PH spell. "Find" does not find it.

"Recharge" as a find word in M&T:
Rods per M&T "..some rods may be recharged with certain spells and rituals,, check description".. personally love that, make it easy or hard or don't allow.. up to CK.
Staff.. same as above
Wands.. again same as above.. infact so much same as above they call the "wand" a "staff" in the description on page 166.

Traveller, More type-os to fix in M&T.. get the word Wand in there under the recharge description.

So, The trolls have left it to us to decide which ones can recharge and what that entails.. CK call. Love the ideas here, great discussion!

[Captain_K]

Dare I as for someone to write a nice article for Domesday "99 ways to recharge you rod, staff or wand?" Could be a great deal of fun in that piece!

[Buttmonkey]

I allow wands and staves to be recharged on an individual item basis (i.e., not all wands or staves can be recharged). For those that can be recharged, the item is given a replacement charge by an appropriate spell caster casting the spell into the item (e.g., a wizard can give one charge back to a wand of fireball by casting fireball into the wand).

The bigger question is how powerful is the spell cast by the item. For example, for a wand of fireballs, how much damage does a fireball cast with the wand do? M&T is a little vague (or at least unclear) in this regard: "The necessary challenge and caster level of the spell cast by the wand is either 1) equal to the level of the wielder or 2) equal to the level of the wand's creator, or, if unknown, as if a 12th level caster created the item." The BTB rule for staves and rods is comparable. The BTB language begs the question: which is it? Do you go with wielder level, creator level, or a presumption of a 12th level creator?

My house rule is to treat the magical effect of a rechargeable wand, staff, or rod as being set by the level of the caster who created the charge. Thus, if you get a wand of fireballs that was charged by a level 20 wizard, it's going to do a hell of a lot of damage initially. If the PC recharges the wand, the new charges will be based on the PC's level. If the PC hires someone to recharge it, the new charges will be based on the level of whoever was hired. I use FIFO (first in, first out). This can create a bit of bookkeeping since you have to keep track of how many charges at what caster level are in the device. However, I haven't found it to be a problem (maybe because I do limit the rechargeability of some items).

I also deviate from M&T by sometimes limiting the number of charges to an amount less than the default 50 charges.

I developed these house rules mostly due to the impact of scrolls. The rules for scrolls don't say anything about the potency of a spell from a scroll. The question of the damage caused by a scroll of fireball is left up in the air. I decided the power level of the spell should be based on the level of the caster who created the scroll. Thus, a fireball scroll created by a 20th level wizard will be more powerful than a fireball scroll created by a 13th level wizard. Once I made that decision, it seemed appropriate to use the same rule for the power level of rods, staves, and wands; and that led to my recharge rules.

I've had fun with my players finding scrolls, but not knowing how strong the scroll was. One particular fireball scroll turned out to have been crafted by a very high level wizard and using the spell caused enormous damage to a section of the city the PCs were in. Good times.

[Buttmonkey]

Wands.. again same as above.. infact so much same as above they call the "wand" a "staff" in the description on page 166.

Which printing are you referring to? I can't find that typo in my 4th printing.

[mmbutter]

I love giving out wands and staffs with very small qty of charges so they get them for a bit then they go away.. this is true of items with spells above my groups level.. but when they can re-charge or pay to have them recharged. I like something "cost" more then just dump spells into them in your free time so your wand is up to full at all times.

Well, the section of M&T I quoted does say that it's only one per day, so they would have to have a lot of down time to keep all their items "topped up"...

[Rigon]

I allow wands and staves to be recharged on an individual item basis (i.e., not all wands or staves can be recharged). For those that can be recharged, the item is given a replacement charge by an appropriate spell caster casting the spell into the item (e.g., a wizard can give one charge back to a wand of fireball by casting fireball into the wand).

The bigger question is how powerful is the spell cast by the item. For example, for a wand of fireballs, how much damage does a fireball cast with the wand do? M&T is a little vague (or at least unclear) in this regard: "The necessary challenge and caster level of the spell cast by the wand is either 1) equal to the level of the wielder or 2) equal to the level of the wand's creator, or, if unknown, as if a 12th level caster created the item." The BTB rule for staves and rods is comparable. The BTB language begs the question: which is it? Do you go with wielder level, creator level, or a presumption of a 12th level creator?

My house rule is to treat the magical effect of a rechargeable wand, staff, or rod as being set by the level of the caster who created the charge. Thus, if you get a wand of fireballs that was charged by a level 20 wizard, it's going to do a hell of a lot of damage initially. If the PC recharges the wand, the new charges will be based on the PC's level. If the PC hires someone to recharge it, the new charges will be based on the level of whoever was hired. I use FIFO (first in, first out). This can create a bit of bookkeeping since you have to keep track of how many charges at what caster level are in the device. However, I haven't found it to be a problem (maybe because I do limit the rechargeability of some items).

I also deviate from M&T by sometimes limiting the number of charges to an amount less than the default 50 charges.

I developed these house rules mostly due to the impact of scrolls. The rules for scrolls don't say anything about the potency of a spell from a scroll. The question of the damage caused by a scroll of fireball is left up in the air. I decided the power level of the spell should be based on the level of the caster who created the scroll. Thus, a fireball scroll created by a 20th level wizard will be more powerful than a fireball scroll created by a 13th level wizard. Once I made that decision, it seemed appropriate to use the same rule for the power level of rods, staves, and wands; and that led to my recharge rules.

I've had fun with my players finding scrolls, but not knowing how strong the scroll was. One particular fireball scroll turned out to have been crafted by a very high level wizard and using the spell caused enormous damage to a section of the city the PCs were in. Good times.

The 3 options are there for the CK to decide which one he uses. In my games, it goes by wielder (option 1). My reasoning is that the wand/staff/rod is a magical receptacle and the wielder manipulates the magical energy stored in the item. A higher level caster is going to be able to manipulate the energy more effectively than a lower level caster. That way I don't have to track different levels of spells from those items and it makes them useful over a long period of time.

And I use the BTB recharging of said items. In my current game, the group is 6th/7th level and just got their first wands (magic missile and fireball) They took them off of a powerful hobgoblin shaman (8th level caster). Unfortunately for them, their only wizard is 6th level, so the wands "went down" in power. But still useful for the party. And the wands only have a handful of charges each until the wizard has a chance to recharge them.

But in Tree's games, wands/staves/rods cast at the level it takes for them to be created. So, I've seen it both ways.

R-

[Captain_K]

my pdf seems to be a fourth printing. 9th and 10th line down, RHS side of page 166

[Treebore]

But in Tree's games, wands/staves/rods cast at the level it takes for them to be created. So, I've seen it both ways.

R-

Yep. That is so if the campaign gets into really high levels magic items such as wands, rods and staves will get used less and less, unless the player takes the game time to make thier own. Or I decide to give one I had be made by a higher level NPC be made available to the players. At much higher costs, etc...

So at lower levels, everyone wants to find them, at higher level, nice to have as a back up, but won't get used until after personal spells are used up.

[Buttmonkey]

my pdf seems to be a fourth printing. 9th and 10th line down, RHS side of page 166

Hmm. I'm working off the digest sized 4th printing M&T and the typo does not appear where you indicated. The printing is indicated on the first page of the book. Maybe you're actually working off the third printing?

[Go0gleplex]

Well, you don't necessarily need a spell to enchant an item. Many stories use runic circles, runes themselves, ritual, etc. as part of the item creation process. One thing is that common is that the spell being recharged is cast at the same level as the spells contained in the item otherwise there is compatibility issues.

I also recall a permanency spell being required with many items to complete the creation as well. As to Enchant Item no longer being a spell, it can be a rune from the rune mark or something. Lots of ways to deal with it. Guess it really boils down to what fits your game and world best.

[Captain_K]

The pdf M&T has dragon on cover. First page says "fourth printing" on bottom. The sentence which I'm guessing is a copy paste insert from the Staff section within the wand section... I looked back and earlier in the wand section it ALSO states - no recharge to wands.

I looked at old hard copy of M&T, 80112, which clearly states a wand out of charges is a non-magical stick.

So my pdf I'm guessing has a few "inserted" sentences in WAND that need to be deleted.

[Treebore]

`Yeah, personally, I do require the Enchant Item Spell, so do have it written up for C&C. I also require its use for Recharging. So recharging is not something you would be doing while travelling. You would be at home, in your labs, or church, if divine, to do any recharging.

[Kayolan]

I assume there are various house rules (and would like to hear them to see what the various views are on it) but also what is the rule by the book ?

The Castle Keepers Guide has a suggestion, I think it's almost the same as what's found in Monsters & Treasure:

CHARGES AND RECHARGING A MAGIC ITEM

Generally, it is a matter of casting the proper spell into a wand or staff. If
it’s a paralysis wand, the wizard throws hold spells or the like into the wand
to charge it up. When there is a choice of spells as in a staff of power, the
wizard gets away with throwing the least of the spells into the staff to add
charges for any spells. Therefore, the wizard can cast magic missile spells
into the staff and get hold monster charges from the magic.

When there is a rod or staff that has power but it isn’t a specific
spell, more research must be given to the recharging. In this case, an
experienced sage or wizard who deals with magic must be hired to find the
proper essence. A wizard of the 9th-level or higher will be necessary to add
the charge unless it has a holy effect and then a cleric of the 12th-level or
higher is needed. Very often, it will require crushing a patterned gem of
some specific type and adding the chips and dust to a liquid infusion.

[mmbutter]

The pdf M&T has dragon on cover. First page says "fourth printing" on bottom. The sentence which I'm guessing is a copy paste insert from the Staff section within the wand section... I looked back and earlier in the wand section it ALSO states - no recharge to wands.

I looked at my fourth printing and I see nowhere where it states anything like "no recharge to wands".

[jdizzy001]

I like the idea of channeling their own spells into the staff for later use. In fact, maybe that is something the wizard can do at the end of the day. Meaning, cast his remaining spells into his staff for tomorrow. Then, the next day when they get up they have their charged staff plus any spells they Want to prepare. That being said, one would have to limit how many spells a staff could hold otherwise, during down time the wizard could cast a month's worth of fireballs into their staff.

Another route would be to not allow them to recharge their staff, but after it burns out, throw more staves at them.

OH! Give them magic tatoo ink which allows them to store their spells in their skin for later use. However, to unleash the spells, they have to take off their robes and expose the tatoo!

[Lurker]

Thanks for all the info

No surprise that there isn't a consensus - is there ever one around here

I like the idea of recharging the wands staffs etc - I hate waste - but I wouldn't want to make it be a tool that would make the magic user over powerful.

One end of the spectrum has the MU dumping spell after spell into it day after day, and then having a months worth of fire balls at their finger tips when they get into a fight. The other end is they have a nifty stick that has x amount of uses, then after that it is a good nose picker or fire poker but no other true use ...

I'm not sure where the golden middle is on it, but luckily, I'm not a DM so I don't have to try and find it ...

[Captain_K]

Here is the text

[mmbutter]

Still not seeing anything that says anything like "no recharges to wands". Indeed, I see this in the same book (pg 124):

[Captain_K]

The sideways text is the older hard copy of my M&T (80112). It clearly states, "run out of charges and the wand is dead". It does NOT comment on the ability to recharge. In this older version of M&T Rod don't have charges (specifically states that), thus each Rod is unique and described specifically. The Staff is charged and notes it can be recharged. I'm guessing in the newer versions of M&T they tried to harmonize and note those that work on charges can be recharged.

Thus the Staff recharge language was likely the basis for never versions of M&T which changed to charges for rods, staffs, and wands.

In the newer version of M&T the rod "usually starts with 25 charges", later the text tells you they start with 50 charges.. also a type-o here,... "A rop has several spells ..." So in newer versions rods start with 25 to 50 charges, use charges and SOME can be recharged with spells and rituals; check the item description for details.

The Staff is a 50 charged item, themed to use many spells and powers...."SOME staves may be recharged with certain spells and rituals; check the item description for details."

The Wand seems to have changed from being a stick with many copies of one spell in it to many types of spells in it.. the language on charges notes 50 charges. The "copy and pasted" staff recharge language seems highly out of place especially with the language noting once out of charges the wand is dead.

So the words are all there for you to see now MM.. I'm not misquoting.. I'm guessing versions of books all are somewhat different. But in the end magic items are "unique" and for sure a druid or cleric item will be made and recharge (if allowed) in very different manners than the wizard or illusionist items. One rarely talks about how divine items are fundamentally created differently than arcane ones.

So, In the end, charge or recharge.. its up to the CK and HAVE FUN with it.. make it unique or make it simple "sleep with it under your pillow and every am it recharges but your spells are stripped from memory"...

I will state our 3rd level mage with a wand of magic missiles was ripping off attacks with the wand where the wand was charged with 5th level MM so three missiles per wand use and was like a man with a semi-automatic weapon. No chance to disrupt the spell...12 pts per round on average.. better than the fighters especially since he never misses, has HUGE range and only needs the slightest sight of his target (no cover for you my fiends). So a Wand of Magic Missiles created by 19th lvl caster is a terrible thing to behold.. think old Finneous Fingers... "Hold my foster grants!".. spoke the wizard as he pulled forth his wand of automatic magic missiles to clear the castle walls of those annoying hobbit thieves.

[Captain_K]

Traveller or Troll... a bit of history here? Clarification? Plans to improve in the future? Harmonize? Taveller, For sure, here are several type-os or Errata for your next edit of the M&T... get these three items cleaned up. Will be adding this to the next issue of Domesday IX "Q&A section with Traveller". Taveller or Trolls, would love to have your comments within that issue.. you know how to email me.

[mmbutter]

The Wand seems to have changed from being a stick with many copies of one spell in it to many types of spells in it.. the language on charges notes 50 charges. The "copy and pasted" staff recharge language seems highly out of place especially with the language noting once out of charges the wand is dead.

Not inconsistent. If you let the wand run out of charges, it loses it's magic ability (becomes a non-magical stick). However as long as it remains charged, and thus magical, you can add charges to it. I still see nowhere that it says "wands cannot be recharged" or words to that effect.

In addition, I have that older book as well. It also says, on page 88, the following:

[Captain_K]

I agree it can be viewed that way.. I'm only looking at the language within the M&T in the item description. Where (what page) and what book does it contradict or expand upon the M&T item description. I think its clear to all that as the M&T has been reprinted the descriptions have changed. There are type-os, there are contradictions... so when you venture further afield into other sections of M&T OR into the CKG this discussion gets even more convoluted.. thus my second post.. PLEASE trolls/Traveller, fix the item descriptions in a uniform manner.

But like all things in games and C&C specifically, its all up to us to do as we please.. its our game.

So MMBUTTER, Would you take on the task to write up a complete article on recharging wands, staffs, and rods? Submit it to me in word for and I will publish it in the next Domesday? You seem like an ideal author.. time to get involved!

[mmbutter]

I agree it can be viewed that way.. I'm only looking at the language within the M&T in the item description. Where (what page) and what book does it contradict or expand upon the M&T item description. I think its clear to all that as the M&T has been reprinted the descriptions have changed. There are type-os, there are contradictions... so when you venture further afield into other sections of M&T OR into the CKG this discussion gets even more convoluted.. thus my second post.. PLEASE trolls/Traveller, fix the item descriptions in a uniform manner.

Like I said, I don't see it as a contradiction. If you let it run out of charges, it's non-magical and cannot be recharged, but as long as it remains charged you can add charges to it. Some real-world batteries act this way - if you let them discharge completely, they are difficult or nearly impossible to recharge, but as long as you don't let it get that low, you can recharge it easily. Actually, the Staff of Striking says this explicitly in it's description. It has 10 charges and when you use it you can choose to expend 1, 2, or 3 charges to increase damage. Every day, the staff recharges back up to 10 charges on it's own. However, if you ever use that last charge, it becomes a non-magical staff.

[EDIT] Just realized the Staff of Striking was a 5E thing, but the concept is the same...

So MMBUTTER, Would you take on the task to write up a complete article on recharging wands, staffs, and rods? Submit it to me in word for and I will publish it in the next Domesday? You seem like an ideal author.. time to get involved!

I'll think about it.

[Traveller]

The information on recharging was added to the text of rods and wands for the fourth print, essentially copy and pasted from the text for staves. This explains why none of the items in the book have information about recharging, except for some items having a note that they cannot be recharged. Yet we do have guidelines on how to recharge an item, mentioned by mmbutter.

Wands do need a little clarification, because the current text contradicts itself. In both the third and fourth print the first paragraph of wands states that a wand that runs out of charges is simply a non-magical stick, which seems to eliminate the prospect of wands being rechargeable. The fourth print version of the article mentions in a later paragraph that select wands may be rechargeable and to see the item description.

@Captain_K: The item descriptions were fixed in a uniform manner, and I don't know where you're seeing "staff" in the wand entry. Neither my PDF nor my hard copy have that error. Simply strike the mention of the wand being a non-magical stick at the end of the first paragraph in wands and call it a day. The intent seems to have been to make all three rechargeable, but leave recharge capabilities to the CK's discretion. However, with none of the items in the book having recharge information in them, by the book only items NOT in the book can be recharged.

For a future printing, if any of the items in the book are supposed to be rechargeable, that information needs to be added to each item.

[mmbutter]

Wands do need a little clarification, because the current text contradicts itself. In both the third and fourth print the first paragraph of wands states that a wand that runs out of charges is simply a non-magical stick, which seems to eliminate the prospect of wands being rechargeable.

Like I said, I don't see it as a contradiction. If you let it run out of charges, it's non-magical and cannot be recharged, but as long as it remains charged you can add charges to it.