You're the best!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:12 pm

*insert lyrics from the Karate Kid movie*
"Youre the best!

Around!

Nothings gonna ever keep you down

Youre the Best!

Around!

Nothings gonna ever keep you down

Youre the Best!

Around!

Nothings gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ow-own"

*

Many of here have seen hundred, if not thousands of RPG products throughout the years. Many of us are varied gamers who have played many different genres and games. That being said:

Is there just one RPG product that stands out amongst the others and of paramount goodness? What is the best RPG product you've ever seen/played/read?

........................................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

RPGmonk · Post by **RPGmonk** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:22 pm

In the distance...I here a puckering of lips and a brandishing of buttocks...and then a collective shout of;

Castles and Crusades!

Actually if I look back at the RPG I had the most fun with, besides D&D being my introduction, I would have to say Stormbringer. My friends and I were always big fans of the albino and just really loved playing that RPG.

Thanks for asking

Zudrak · Post by **Zudrak** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:37 pm

My first "go-round" with RPG's? The AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide

My second "go-round"? The Castles and Crusades Player's Handbook

I used the DMG to really get DM-ing and gaming. I use the C&C PHB to proselytize.
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"I shun him."

-----

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-- E. Gary Gygax

Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:31 pm

Asking the tough questions, are you? I don't believe that I could narrow it down to just one!

The basic and expert classic D&D boxed sets

Castles & Crusades PHB 2nd printing & M&T

Forgotten Realms 1e boxed set

Hollowfaust

Vampire: The Masquerade 1e

Manual of the Planes (1e and 3e)

Rappan Athuk 1

Ruins of Undermountain

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:33 pm

Indeed these are the tough questions. But do you not have one, that stands above the others as being THE BEST OF THE BEST?

I could put many on the list of the bests, but there is one that stands alone. Is there just one stand alone product for you Jyrdan?
................................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Beyondthebreach · Post by **Beyondthebreach** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:55 pm

Well, I have only had the C&C Player's Handbook for about 3 months, but I am going to give it my vote! I am truly impressed with it - without a doubt, the fact that it marks my return to playing in a RPG campaign doesn't hurt it's cause!

If you had asked me this question a few months ago, I would have said the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition rulebook . . .

Jungger · Post by **Jungger** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:01 pm

Best is AD&D and second is Villains and Vigilantes (we were big Jeff Dee fans).

Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:20 pm

If I was held at gunpoint and forced to pick the best RPG product ever, I would probably spend hours debating.

But at the end of that, I'd have to say it's the classic D&D basic red box set. The art, writing, and rules still hold up very strongly to this day.

Omote wrote:
Indeed these are the tough questions. But do you not have one, that stands above the others as being THE BEST OF THE BEST?

I could put many on the list of the bests, but there is one that stands alone. Is there just one stand alone product for you Jyrdan?
................................................Omote

FPQ

Orpheus · Post by **Orpheus** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:17 pm

I played plenty of 2nd edition and it was my first real RPG experience so part of me wants to say, "I'll stand up for AD&D 2e." If there's any gaming experience that I remember most fondly though, I would have to say DC Heroes. I loved playing the game, GM'ing it, and making a character was an absolute blast! Anything I could think of that I wanted in a superhero I could find in the powers and skills list. No joke. I liked the exponential system that the game used although, as it has often been said, this really didn't work well for non-superpowered characters. I didn't care. It was just a lot of fun playing a character whose complete concept you came up with and then turned into something playable. Hmmm...maybe a superhero SIEGE game could work well.

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:24 pm

Wow, tough one Omote. I'm gonna go with AD&D 2e. I I spend most of my gaming in that system and it never failed me.

But, since you've asked the question of us, I'm gonna ask the question of you. Which is your "BEST OF THE BEST," Duke Omote?

R-
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Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:31 pm

I have to go with the basic red box D&D. Awesome.

Even years later I can remember the thrill of looking through it the first time. The art...everything about it was good.

Aleena, will you marry me?

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:42 pm

Rigon wrote:
Which is your "BEST OF THE BEST," Duke Omote?

That is indeed a tough question my friend. I have pondered such decisions many times and every time it comes very close. I would like to put a little more thought into the final answer though.

..............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:49 pm

That is a tough one. I'd have to go with the D&D Rules Cyclopedia (BECM all in one!). That thing just ROCKS. C&C is a close runner up as is WFRP for fantasy. Outside of that genre, I've found Savage Worlds to be an absolutely OUTSTANDING game for modern and sci fi gaming.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:57 pm

My all time favorite RPG product is the module Nights Dark Terror. My favorite system is C&C.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:22 pm

Warhammer Quest Roleplay Book (the one from the board game)... yeppers. Its better than the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, but the RC is a close second. After that, its Shadowrun 1st Edition.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:47 pm

Well for me, so far I'm finding C&C to be the best of the best (heh, no surprise there), but others that I think are some of the best games I've played or tried:

B/XD&D

WFRPG

Star Frontiers

Lejendary Adventure

Tunnels & Trolls

AD&D 1E

I don't have much time to try too many other games unless they're online, but I'd like to sometime try:

Gamma World

Metamorphosis Alpha

Traveller

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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:51 pm

serleran wrote:
Warhammer Quest Roleplay Book (the one from the board game)... yeppers.

Nice selection! Definitely a damn fine book (and all that information contained in a single volume ). Hard to beat that, indeed.

However in weighing the options, and considering the differences, I'm going to have to say that the BEST OF THE BEST is the Basic Dungeons & Dragons Expert Box Set. The reasons for this are like others above. The artwork is amazing, the layout is perfect and the choice of information to be contained within was brilliant. While this box set only had one book (it's only shortcoming), it also had the classic adventure The Isle of Dread. While this book didn't contain all of the rules on how to roleplay the Dungeons & Dragons game, it did contain all of the character information from the Basic box set, more weapons and equipment, and lots of good DMing info. Plus it had the foundations for the Known World campaign setting.

It was a tough choice between this and the Rules Cyclopedia (I mean really tough), but the Basic D&D Expert Box Set wins.

C&C PHB 2nd printing is a damn fine book, and almost as good (certainly the best of the best in the past 25 years), but there are certain items that hold it back from being perfect.

There you go.

..............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:06 pm

If nostalgic memories are allowed to play, I would say the Mentzer Basic and Expert sets, for more or less the same reasons that many others have explained (including marrying Aleena )

Close second would be AD&D (both editions), with a strong preference for the 1e DMG (a masterwork, IMO).

Next is C&C, which I think is the best thing we can have to bridge the past with the present.

Cheers,

Antonio

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:51 am

Omote wrote:
serleran wrote:
C&C PHB 2nd printing is a damn fine book, and almost as good (certainly the best of the best in the past 25 years), but there are certain items that hold it back from being perfect.

Care to elaborate? I actually found C&C while I was rewriting AD&D 2e to work mostly with a d20 mechanic. Mostly.

R-
_________________
Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:01 am

most fun as a player = Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

most fun as a dm = Basic red box D&D

best battle ever... = robotech

the game that I wanted desperatly to be the "best" but was too young to "get it" = twilight 2000

Cheers,

J.

pineappleleader · Post by **pineappleleader** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:41 am

D6 Star Wars. You could be up and playing in half an hour. With a few house rules D6 worked with any Genre. Fast and fun.

I still miss being an Elite Stormtrooper and hunting rebel scum. If only Lord Vader had let US deal with Skywalker and his friends, things would have been different. (d20 Star Wars sucks).
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:35 am

Rigon wrote:
Omote wrote:
Care to elaborate? I actually found C&C while I was rewriting AD&D 2e to work mostly with a d20 mechanic. Mostly.

R-

Heh, quit making me look bad! Omote said that! Not me!

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:00 pm

Do you want me to comment on why the C&C PHB is one of the best RPG books in the past 25 years, or what specifically holds it back from being the best?

Just wonderin'. Confused today I 'spose.
.............................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:23 pm

C&C is the best system for me.

As for fun, I have several, L5R, Shadowrun, and Traveller being my 3 favorites.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:55 pm

It might be the best system for you, but is it the best RPG product you've ever seen?

Admittadly there are some just fantastic products out there that I don't rank as my favorites, but they would have to be included for sheer greatness.

CONAN ~ THE ATLANTEAN EDTION comes to mind. Not a personal favorite, but a dam fine RPG book it is. Perhaps one of the best ever.

.........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:32 pm

Omote wrote:
It might be the best system for you, but is it the best RPG product you've ever seen?

Admittadly there are some just fantastic products out there that I don't rank as my favorites, but they would have to be included for sheer greatness.

CONAN ~ THE ATLANTEAN EDTION comes to mind. Not a personal favorite, but a dam fine RPG book it is. Perhaps one of the best ever.

.........................................Omote

FPQ

Just wait to see my C&C Conan Lemurian edition

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:41 pm

Omote wrote:
Do you want me to comment on why the C&C PHB is one of the best RPG books in the past 25 years, or what specifically holds it back from being the best?

Just wonderin'. Confused today I 'spose.
.............................................Omote

FPQ

The "what holds it back" part, but you can throw the other part in for free if you like.

R-
_________________
Rigon o' the Lakelands, Baron of The Castles & Crusades Society
The Book of the Mind

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:10 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Just wait to see my C&C Conan Lemurian edition

OM*G! Bring it on... no seriously. Think about a C&C book like that the Atlantean Edition from Mongoose (with the full color artwork, layout, etc) but C&Cized with a focus on... C&C stuff!

Lemurian edition... how frackin' awesome would that be. 8)

....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

Dagger · Post by **Dagger** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:16 pm

The RPG product that stands out for me is Greyhawk Ruins (WGR1). I choose it because my group played it during the prime of my gaming youth. I am 32 and I started playing in 1987. WGR1 came out in 1990 and I DM'd it for my best friend. His 3 characters delved into the Zagyg Tower and the experiences that ensued shaped their lives forever...

It's probably not the best RPG product out there, but my favorite because of all the memories.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:33 pm

Rigon wrote:
The "what holds it back" part, but you can throw the other part in for free if you like.

This is going to seem like a lot of critisizm, but it's not. I love C&C and think that (honestly) it is the best RPG ever printed. Lots of love to C&C's predicessors, but C&C *summons Dicky V here* is king in my eyes, bay-beee!

* Typos, typos, typos... it just gets to me. After the second printing, typos should be completely excised.

* The classes should have been expanded to 20 levels (seems like a natural ending point for the system

* A little bit more play-testing, to iron out certain issues with the barbarian and very minor other issues with characters.

* This is the PHB, make it a book for players... BIG TIME. Take the time to expand the arms & equipment section with pictures of the weapons and/or descriptions of it all. Including detail on riding animals, pack animals, etc. Plus add some examples and pricing of possible "expert" items that could be available to players and what exactly makes items expert.

* Some examples of languages.

* Clear rules on movement within the combat round, and outside of the combat round, including rules for movement about riding animals.

* Artwork, artwork, artwork. One of the best aspects of the PHB is the artwork, but I think there is actually a bit too little of it. One or two full or half-page pieces, plus a ton of the little stuff. Small pictures of weapons, or other types of "doodles" to fill in the white space.

This might seem like a great many issues, but really they're not. You might consider this personal choices, but my thought process is as follows: To make the most complete, and well rounded rules BOOK FOR PLAYERS. I completely understand why some of these were left on the cutting room floor, or just never part of the MS from the get-go. Regardless, these items would make the C&C PHB the most complete version of the game.

........................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society