1st Ed and 2nd Ed DnD conversion to CnC

[Captain_K]

Now that DnD is back to its origins (sort of) with 5e and we have in the Domesday handy conversion help going from 5e to and from CnC, I just realized that all my old HS friends from the '80s only have 1st and 2nd edition DnD books... as I try to reconnect with them and game with them I want to use CnC… has anyone written up a good summary or quick cheat sheet notes on using 1st and 2nd edition Monster and Treasure books? Basic conversions for move, AC, etc.

I know I can do this, but chances are many have already done it, I just need to find the place to look.. or have someone send me :}

[Lurker]

I know I've talked to Tree about it before, he may have had something saved on his 'signature block' for it or in his house rules

I may have some notes on it but they would be on my home computer, so I can't check until I get home from work.

[DMSamuel]

Doctor Warlock has a post about this on his blog here: Converting D&D/AD&D/D20 System to Castles & Crusades

In summary, it goes like this:

Armour Classes
To convert a D&D Armour Class to C&C, simply subtract the given AC from 19. Remember that subtracting a negative number equates to the same thing as addition.

So a D&D monster listed as AC 5 would be AC 14 in C&C (19-5= 14). A monster with AC -3 would become AC 22 in C&C (19+3 =22). Saves are easier to convert. If the creature saves as a fighter, thief, dwarf, or halfling it is Physical prime. If it saves as an elf, cleric, or wizard it is mental prime. Use the creatures HD as the bonus to all rolls (including saves, attacks, etc).

If using 1st or 2nd Edition AD&D as a resource, Armour Class is also easy to manage. Simply subtract the listed AC from 20. So an AC 5 creature would be AC 15 in C&C and an AC -3 character would be AC 23 in C&C.

Saving Throws

Older editions of D&D had 5 saving throws. C&C has 6 and they are roughly the same, except the C&C saves are directly linked to stats. The old D&D saves were as follows and converts to C&C as presented below:

Saves vs. Paralysis – Castles & Crusades Strength Based Saves
Saves vs. Breath Weapon (and area of affect spells like fireball) – Castles & Crusades Dexterity Based Saves
Saves vs. Poison, Death – Castles & Crusades Constitution Based Saves
Saves vs. Wands, Staves, Wands (and Illusions) – Castles & Crusades Intelligence Based Saves
Saves vs. Spells (except illusions and area of affect spells like fireball and charm or sleep spells) – Castles & Crusades Wisdom Based Saves
Saves vs. Enchantment spells (sleep, charm, etc) and fear – Castles & Crusades Charisma Based Saves

Converting damage from Traps.

If the Traps Damage is related to a spell, look up the C&C equivalent and adjust the effect accordingly.

If the Traps Damage is related to a weapon, look up that weapons damage in C&C and convert it.

If damage is listed as a die with a damage bonus exceeding the die types, add another die to the damage instead. If it has a damage bonus less than the die type, get rid of the bonus damage.

So if a trap is listed as doing 5d6+7 damage, convert it to 6d6 damage for C&C. If it does 5d6+4 damage, its damage is just does 5d6.

[DMSamuel]

In terms of creatures specifically? Here's how I do it:

1) Look up the stats in AD&D and look, specifically, at the HD, HP, XP, and special attacks.

2) Go to the front of the Monsters & Treasure (page 12 in the 5th printing) and compare the HD/XP info there to see how close it is.

3) If the two are not extremely different, just use the AD&D stats as is.

4) If they are different, find an M&T creature that is the same HD and has similar abilities - use those stats, tweaking a bit as necessary

----

Here is a comparison I did of the Giant Lizard from Temple of Elemental Evil (AD&D) and the Giant Lizard from C&C. This particular thread was asking about differences in XP award for the same creature in C&C vs AD&D:

The Giant Lizard has a C&C XP listing of 40+4... that means 40 + 4 xp per HP, so if that thing is a 4d8 HP creature, let's look at 3 possible XP totals:
1) Giant lizard with maximum HP would have 32 HP, so their XP would be... 40 + (4x32) = 40+(128) = 168... not so different from the 189 in AD&D
2) Giant lizard with minimum HP would have 4 HP, so their XP would be... 40 + (4x4) = 40+(16) = 56... quite a bit lower
3) Giant lizard with average HP would have 18 HP, so their XP would be... 40 + (4x18) = 40+(72) = 112... middle of the road

So you have to pay attention to that number after the + sign and multiply the XP by that number, then add it to the static XP number for the creature.

Also, by the way, that Giant Lizard in the AD&D DMG XP tables has HD 3+1, so it has a base XP of 60 + 4 per HP, and it has a special ability of doing double damage when a 20 is rolled on the attack roll. That special ability means you add 65 to the XP total... so here is how they got the 189 number there:

Standard base XP for a 3+1 HD creature = 60
4 XP per HP = 16x4 = 64
Special Ability or Attack = 65

60+64+65=189

It's not so different from the C&C one, but C&C doesn't have double damage on a 20 unless you do a houserule.

[Lurker]

DMSam - NICE

That is much better than what i found here at home. I have a few random notes on AC scattered around, and nothing as precise and in-depth (esp with the exp) as you posted.

THANKS

[Captain_K]

Thanks very helpful...

[Captain_K]

1st edition Move of 12" is 30 ft, right?
Everything else kind of is obvious and luckily I do not use experience points in that level of detail, so that part of my life is simple.
To keep it simple 20-AC = CnC AC.
Thanks!

[DMSamuel]

Per the AD&D PHB page 102, a 12" movement rate equals 120 feet of movement every 1 minute, or 12 feet of movement every 6 seconds.

However, as long as you make everyone with a 12" mvmt rate have a 30ft move per round, it will work out just fine.

[Captain_K]

In CnC move is 30 which is in 6 seconds. so CnC fundamentally lets folks move farther in 6 seconds. In real life that is still really slow, thus the, double and quad options for the move. But basically old PCs all of them moved at 12" and now that move at 30' for the std human.

[DMSamuel]

Yeah - the rationale for AD&D was that the person was being very careful and, if in battle, was parrying, dodging, defending, etc, along with the movement. As I said, if you just make 30 per round the standard human rate, then it shouldn't cause any issues - if a halfling instead moves 20 feet rather than 30, that's not going to change the effect of the 30foot standard human move. Except in cases where you are thinking of overland travel, in which case the group moves only as fast as the slowest member.

[Captain_K]

If you plot height of a bi-ped vs move there is a nice linear relationship... but making anyone over 3' tall move at 20' is too slow, its more like 25'... just a point on the topic... check out Domesday 7 or 8..

[Grandpa]

If you plot height of a bi-ped vs move there is a nice linear relationship... but making anyone over 3' tall move at 20' is too slow, its more like 25'... just a point on the topic... check out Domesday 7 or 8..

That assumes the same proportion of leg length to overall body height. If the legs are shorter then the 20' makes sense. Like dwarves. They are depicted as having shorter legs than humans in proportion to height.. But Hobbits look more like the same proportions as humans...

[Captain_K]

This is true.. but I only have access to height, not leg length...

I wonder how much of our mind's eye view of other races is shaded from actual human dwarfism?

[Grandpa]

I wonder how much of our mind's eye view of other races is shaded from actual human dwarfism?

My dwarves are different than humans with dwarvism. Mine have torsos & arms almost the size of humans but shorter legs. Thus, other than for movement they are medium creatures. Heavier than elves by far. See this pic. Notice how hands reach knees as opposed to human arm length?

[Captain_K]

Your choice of images is newer. The arms are longer, but the belt is half the height, thus the leg length to height is standard. No short legs here, just long arms.

[Grandpa]

Correct. It is the closet image to my specs I could find

[Captain_K]

So your argument for "short legs on short people" make them slower... seems to have "no legs" :}

Sorry, I could not help myself... the puns to this one could just run on and on... damn, did it again...

[Grandpa]

So your argument for "short legs on short people" make them slower... seems to have "no legs" :}

Sorry, I could not help myself... the puns to this one could just run on and on... damn, did it again...

LOL. But Hobbits in my world are proportioned like a humans except more muscular (otherwise they'd be no stronger than human toddler). A human 3 year old averages 37" and 30 lbs.

[Captain_K]

yeah smaller races should be rather weak, but a 35 # dog can be damaging... so put a blade in their hand.
Its fantasy.. but 5' tall folks vs 7' tall folks we make no gaming difference there... most medieval folks were lucky to be 5' 6" so 3'6" tall is not that big a deal. Plus has you say, make them stocky and stout..

Its a fantasy game after all... my injection was to try to help the smaller races out with a move of 25 not 20 and we give them a bonus to AC of one.
as they make a much smaller target. very true for ranged attacks...