Fighter doesn't get much...

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:10 pm

compared to the other classes...

ie. They don't really get to add their level to much when making atribute checks simply because they have so few class skills.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:19 pm

That's because fighters are killers, and are designed to be the best warriors. That is their archetype. No class can come close to the sheer lethality of the fighter. Besides, "skills" as it were, don't exist in C&C unless you're using the CZ:Y add-on. So, in that sense, fighters are just as good as anyone else who doesn't happen to have an ability specifically given to a different class... which means, a fighter is just as good at moving silently as a barbarian as a cleric as a flower-rapist; those who do have that ability explicitly are, per force, the best at it, since that's what they are supposed to do; it also means such individuals are "special" because they can do what no one else can... at least, as well.

C&C is a game of archetypes. Pure and simple. If one wants to bend the archetypes, they have to develop houserules to do it.

So, I honestly don't see the "problem." If you want fighters to "do more" give them some non-combat abilities. I've done this, like being able to form militias and train others in the arts of war. They also make pretty good leaders, and usually know how to make weapons and armor, too. Sure, these are related to combat (they are fighters, after all), but its also something not everyone else gets... making the fighter "special."

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:55 pm

As Serleran suggests, its simple. The most obvious means is to extend Combat Dominance into a type of class ability set. Towit, any combat related ability the CK wants to justify the fighter can add their level.

Blacksmithing, weaponsmithing, seige warfare, logisitics ect ect.

Even arrow deflection. ^_~`
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
The most obvious means is to extend Combat Dominance *snip* Even arrow deflection. ^_~`

But only of the d6 damage or less variety...

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:01 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
But only of the d6 damage or less variety...

*smiles* Is there an arrow that does more? I seem to remember hunting arrows doing d8...
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:03 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
*smiles* Is there an arrow that does more? I seem to remember hunting arrows doing d8...

Methinks thats AD&D, with arrow type determining the damage. C&C is based on bow type. Longbows doing 1d8.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:06 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
Methinks thats AD&D, with arrow type determining the damage. C&C is based on bow type. Longbows doing 1d8.

*chuckles* I still do it the way I always did. ^_~`
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:09 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
*chuckles* I still do it the way I always did. ^_~`

Heh, I know there's numerous things I "default" to previous editions. What can I say? C&C has captured the AD&D feel enough for me to subconsciously port aspects over without realizing it.

StealthSuitStanley · Post by **StealthSuitStanley** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:31 pm

The fighter does in fact get to add his level to an ability. That would be the to hit roll. Probably the most common roll in the game...
And don't forget the advantages to having Str as prime...swimming, grappling, barfights

and throwing dwarves
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:49 pm

Danger Dwarf: Absolutely fantastic Avatar!!!
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:33 am

StealthSuitStanley wrote:
and throwing dwarves

Booooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Julian Grimm wrote:
Danger Dwarf: Absolutely fantastic Avatar!!!

Thanks.

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:10 am

[quote="StealthSuitStanley"]The fighter does in fact get to add his level to an ability. That would be the to hit roll.quote]

Sry, say again...

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:47 pm

Fighter BTH, is the best in the game and goes along exactly with his current level. If the FTR is 5th level, he has a +5 to hit! And that sir, is a combat badass!

...............................................Omote

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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:41 pm

Here are the tweaks I made for the fighter:

*Weapon specialization as Phb but gains new weapons at levels 6, 12 and 18. Each time a new weapon is gained the previous weapon bonuses move up by +1hit and +1 damage.

* Combat Dominance works for all 1HD creatures. At 8th level becomes all 2HD creatures, 12th all 3HD creatures and so on.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:48 pm

Omote wrote:
Fighter BTH, is the best in the game and goes along exactly with his current level. If the FTR is 5th level, he has a +5 to hit! And that sir, is a combat badass!

...............................................Omote

FPQ

*smiles* Hence my suggestion above about expanding into any combat related, or anything which can be justified as combat related, ability check.

It all depends on the characters background.

Someone raised in a military society is going to know certain things that may not be the same as someone raised as a gladiator, or sailor, or desert nomad ect ect.

More to the point of the original posting; it doesn't have to be written down or spelled out to be perfectly viable to include. ^_^
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:07 pm

Don't forget that Fighters are able to wear the heaviest of armors. As far as I recall only clerics match that particular aspect. AC really matters in C&C.

As for skills, I give every class the skills list from 3E. The only limitation being in Craft, Knowledge, and Profession. They get one in each category, 1 for each INT bonus point, with 1 being the minimum, irregardless.

Its been working fine for us.

IanTheMoxious · Post by **IanTheMoxious** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:34 pm

I have found that if you run C&C skills in a specific way then the fighter needs very little adjustment. If you run skills so that EVERYBODY and TRY anything (a fighter picking locks for example) and just use the class skills as bonuses then things work great. In cases where it would be very unlikely that a character would know much about a particular skill (again, a fighter lockpicking) I bump the difficulty up a notch or two to reflect it.

But this is when I am not stealing from previous editions and using flat % chance.

I have also found that I like things a little better when monsters all use the same HD (d8 typically). For me, this solves the whole CD problem.

You would, of course, all be within your rights to tell me to just go play 2e lol. But I like C&C and am glad for the modernization of my favorite rules set.