Product Idea

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:49 am

I once played this old product a friend managed to get from E-Bay called reverse Dungeon, man, that was a fun game, in that light I would love to see a Reverse Crusade, where instead of humans, elves and other good races of the world we play the oppressed, misunderstood and hungry races of the world: Goblins, Orcs, Bugbears, Hobgoblins and the like.

The original game was all about protecting your tribe from the attack of a group of murderers (read PC Classed Party with the archetypes), using traps, caves and so on. We could have a longer focus here, where we also raze cities, conquer domains and play the role of the true conquerors of the world!

I would buy it in a hear beat.
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"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:58 am

Yeah, the original was quite fun, and honestly while an old idea the product was cool to finally see in print. Reverse Dungeon made for a good, small campaign or one-shot adventure.

Personally I couldn't see playing a whole campaign like that, but for a short diversion from normal adventuring, it was a blast!
...........................................Omote

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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:19 am

I've tried to get this on eBay from time to time. Being an oddity, high prices have prevented me from buying it. I love the premise and think that a C&C version would be very interesting.

But I agree with Omote, probably only a one shot or mini-adventure would be good.

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:37 am

There are multiple adventures in Reverse Dungeon, the first and third, in my opinion, being the most fun. The first is the tribe of goblins protecting themselves, and the other is an attack on a city... though, the undead one is ok but a bit on the "this is a cheap rendition of Ravenloft: Requiem." The hardest part of a "reverse crusade" is motivation, though defense is always easy... but there should be something more than that to make it really fun. Also, RD falls flat on its face when you can't really take a PC from the earlier tries into later adventures, due to the vast power level difference (a goblin is not a troll is not a giant shaman is not a lich... for example.)

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 10:43 am

It can be done though, we could have three basic modules in the box, one for playing the underdogs, (aka goblins) defending their home, another for playing the intelligent conquerors (orcs, bugbears and hobgoblins, maybe even gnolls) in their war for territory.

I would make those into races as classes for this purpose, effectively making possible for them to be taken into new adventures, a few corrections might be necessary for the second module, for example, to make the races balanced against one another, but that would be a good thing for this.

I would stay away from ogres, trolls and giants though.

Now I just remembered that fun a D&D boards game I played in once was, where we each played an orc tribe, can't remember where it was set, but the map had all sorts of fun written on it, the orc's vision of the human lands, and we recruited orc leaders, but they could also switch sides on you and there were leaders, shamans and minions.

They do not make games like that any more.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:32 am

Rhuvein wrote:
I've tried to get this on eBay from time to time. Being an oddity, high prices have prevented me from buying it. I love the premise and think that a C&C version would be very interesting.

Here Ya Go Rhu

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:39 am

Nifelhein wrote:
Now I just remembered that fun a D&D boards game I played in once was, where we each played an orc tribe, can't remember where it was set, but the map had all sorts of fun written on it, the orc's vision of the human lands, and we recruited orc leaders, but they could also switch sides on you and there were leaders, shamans and minions.

They do not make games like that any more.

Was it Orc Wars?

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 12:02 pm

Yeah, that was the one, it came along with a supplement, google is our friend: Orcs of Thar and Orc Wars, available for 20 bucks at Noble Knight Games (link
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

Outsider73 · Post by **Outsider73** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:03 pm

Quote:
I would stay away from ogres, trolls and giants though.

Okay... even though you suggest staying away from the big guys, there was a module from the early 3.0 days that I liked, The Giant's Skull by Fiery Dragon. I never got a chance to run it, but always thought it would make a fun break from our regular campaign.

"Turn the tables on standard fantasy adventures! Not only can the players portray the heroes who must retrieve a valuable artifact, the Golden Skull, from the brutish ogres living nearby, but a second scenario can unfold wherein the players take on the parts of the ogres, attempting to punish the human raiders once and for all. THE GIANT'S SKULL contains two fantasy adventures: The first scenario is designed for four 10th-level characters, the second for ogres with 5 class levels. Maps, handouts, full-color counters, and pre-generated ogre characters are also included."

jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:36 pm

Heh. How about an entire continent where the roles are reversed, and the civilized (if still quite evil) humanoids rule over an enslaved human population, with savage and barbaric elves, dwarves, and other "goodly" races (not-necessarily-so-goodly in this case) survive on the fringe of the empires and kingdoms...

In addition to running in the Wilderlands (and Mystara and Aerth and Learth and Aereth) I have my own campaign setting, developed from scratch, Artellia. The northern continent is a fairly traditional high fantasy setting; Tolkien as though written by Eddings and Gemmell is how I describe it. The southern continent, however, has everything reversed. Orcs rule a patchwork of warring kingdoms; hobgoblins rule an empire; ogres have a theocracy; goblins a series of magiocracies; and so forth. Kind of like the Mystaran Broken Lands, only writ large and seriously.

Until I got the Wilderlands license, Artellia was going to be my first product... ah well, too many irons, not enough fire...
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Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:01 pm

I think this kind of thing are great, and a purchase I am more likely to make than an adventure, but then, never was much of an adventurer buyer.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:21 pm

In Soviet Russia, Monsters Loot You!

I'd love to see a role reversal sourcebook or module for C&C. I've been eyeing up my old Complete Book of Humanoids as of late. Right toward the end of the 2e era, I was looking at starting an all-monsters campaign. It was going to be a sort-of Wormy in Mordor campaign, with heavy bits of Mary Gentle's Grunts thrown in, and I'd love to actually get the thing going.

Outsider73 · Post by **Outsider73** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:34 pm

I don't know... do you think this would be a successful product for C&C? It's fun to plan these role-reversals and adventure ideas, but would a full fledged product be financially feasible?

After my initial posting, I think a series of articles and/or adventures in the Crusader would be a better way to go.

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 2:42 pm

Well, as i said, I am more likely to get a product like this than an adventure, thus my suggestion, I could settle for Crusader articles, but then, I don't see a problem in having a product like this in pdf only.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.

jamesmishler · Post by **jamesmishler** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:42 pm

64-page saddle-stitched with map insert, includes:
Races

Kobold

Goblin

Orc

Lizardman

Hobgoblin

Half-ogre

Bugbear

Serpentman

Ogre

Dragonman
Classes

Footsoldier

Raider

Brute

Witchdoctor

Shaman

Chieftain

Plus new Equipment, Spells, and Monsters...

And a gazetteer of the Southern Continent, where the humanoids and monsters rule, humans are in abject slavery, and demi-humans survive in barbaric savagery on the fringes of evil empires and kingdoms...

I think it would sell pretty well...
_________________
James Mishler

Main Man, Adventure Games Publishing
jamesagp1@gmail.com
http://adventuregamespublishing.blogspot.com/
http://jamesmishler.blogspot.com

Nifelhein · Post by **Nifelhein** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:44 pm

See, I am sold to it. Again.
_________________
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects." - Attributed to Herman Melville.