OD&D now available as a buyable/downloadable PDF

thedungeondelver · Post by **thedungeondelver** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:43 pm

Took 'em bloody long enough.
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=28307

or
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=28306

If you've never seen it, I heartily recommend you spend the $5 and have a look at D&D as it was over thirty years ago...

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:52 pm

Cool to see! Thanks for the heads up!

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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:56 pm

Yeah, and they are more than useful for C&C!

I'm glad I have my book version(s), but its cool to have a legal, mucho cheaper way.... I just hope it doesn't mean the value of the prints goes down, too much. I doubt it will, but whatever.

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:04 am

This is definitely excellent. After so many years, and so much speculation about why these were not available. And now, I'll finally be able to get a copy without spending mucho bucks!!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:04 am

serleran wrote:
Yeah, and they are more than useful for C&C!
I'm glad I have my book version(s), but its cool to have a legal, mucho cheaper way.... I just hope it doesn't mean the value of the prints goes down, too much. I doubt it will, but whatever.

From what I can tell PDF doesn't damage the "collector market". The fact that its a print version of whatever edition is what makes it collectible. Plus its physical condition.

Just be wary of "original printing" that may be well made fakes with todays technology.
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thedungeondelver · Post by **thedungeondelver** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:45 am

Treebore wrote:
From what I can tell PDF doesn't damage the "collector market".

Shh, don't tell the folks over at the Acaeum

meepo · Post by **meepo** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:06 am

serleran wrote:
Yeah, and they are more than useful for C&C!
I'm glad I have my book version(s), but its cool to have a legal, mucho cheaper way.... I just hope it doesn't mean the value of the prints goes down, too much. I doubt it will, but whatever.

I think the OCE's will remain valuable. Even there are still quite a few of them around, not that many are regularly for sale, and are often in questionable condition. Plus there is nothing like holding that box & booklets in hand!
Also, having the D&D Rules Cyclopedia available on PDF for $4-5 hasn't stopped its value from climbing over the last few years. They still sell for upward to $60 on eBay at times and are a lot easier to find!

I for one am tickled OD&D is finally (and legally) available to the masses!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:33 am

thedungeondelver wrote:
Shh, don't tell the folks over at the Acaeum

Yeah, I actually came across one thread about this topic over there. All I can say is I haven't seen the effects that were being claimed about PDF copies of stuff.

A PDF copy of Superman #1 will not devalue it anymore than reprints have. Same with any other truly collectible item.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:42 am

Except Superman #1 is worth nothing. Its Action Comic #1 that is worth something.

And, the only reason it has any value, really, is the fact that only 5 known copies (at least, last I heard, some 15 years ago) in decent shape are known to exist. Also, any time you have people with incredible amounts of money looking to "own history" it makes things worth a lot, because they are willing to pay for it. Its about basic economics, really. Very few things have intrinsic value... only those things which can be "used" for something, like wood for fuel, or animals for food and labor. Items of pleasure have no real value... only what is proscribed to them by those who want them. So, the question about pdfs is not whether the greater market devalues the originals, but whether the fact that the pdf exists makes those who are already interested less likely to want them... that is what devalues something: when the demand drops, so does value. Its simple "rules" one learns in high school.

Anyway, yeah, I don't think the pdf will make the OCE drop considerably, but I do think it will have an immediate impact.

There are a lot of people who want the rules... and now, they can get them much easier. Demand = supply (in fact, supply is limitless) in this case and not demand > supply which is how an item gains monetarily.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:48 am

OK, action comic #1 then. Still doesn't change anything. There has been thousands of reprints of Action Comics #1, I even bought one of them. The value of the original has done nothing but go up to shockingly high amounts.

So if something is truly worth collecting the collector who can afford it is going to buy it.

PDF's and reprints are for the poor smucks who'll never have a chance.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:06 am

See, that's not entirely true, either. Proliferation of anything makes everything associated to it worth less than had there been less. If 10 million people have an OCE (in print) selling one to someone else who doesn't have one is kind of a joke. Look at the way other things sell and work... mass production causes items to sell for less, as it relates directly to supply and demand (and other factors, but we're trying to keep it simple). Now, if you're doing this with an "intangible," like a pdf, it has a real impact on the "tangible" because people will not need to buy one, or look for one. It will only matter if they have some sentimental value to the item, or are doing the collecting for archival purposes. For the vast majority, the pdf is good enough... they have no particular desire, per se, to have the book in print, which, ultimately devalues the print items... more so immediately, and less as time passes and the OCE becomes ever more rare. Still, though, it might be as rare as the Voynich Manuscript, and it will only have historical value, for curiosity, and become "priceless." That is a bad thing, really, since priceless also means "without value."

Heh. Really, though, I'm not terribly concerned. I have mine. I'm glad people who want to see OD&D will be able to. However, what I am afraid of has nothing to do with the price or value, but "why" WotC did this... I've got all kinds of conspiracies to consider.

Plaag · Post by **Plaag** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:16 am

thedungeondelver wrote:
Shh, don't tell the folks over at the Acaeum

Tis a debate there
This release is the 6th print (though they have it wrong and there is actually 7 total prints..the 1st-3rd is the woodgrain box sets, 4th-5th are white, 6th-7th are the OCEs white)

They couldn't release the earlier sets because of Tolkien mentions (though I want to say something has still crept in if this is a 6th or 7th print PDF)

ShaneG.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:17 pm

What precisely does "OCE" stand for? I get that it is one of the box sets for the original D&D game, but I'm fumbling for the acronym's meaning.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:28 pm

Original Collector's Edition. It gets that name because those words are on the cover, in a starburst, differentiating it from the earlier 4th and 5th print which also is a white box and virtually, visually, identical otherwise.

Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:32 pm

Thx! I'm slightly less retarded now!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:40 pm

serleran wrote:
See, that's not entirely true, either. Proliferation of anything makes everything associated to it worth less than had there been less. If 10 million people have an OCE (in print) selling one to someone else who doesn't have one is kind of a joke. Look at the way other things sell and work... mass production causes items to sell for less, as it relates directly to supply and demand (and other factors, but we're trying to keep it simple). Now, if you're doing this with an "intangible," like a pdf, it has a real impact on the "tangible" because people will not need to buy one, or look for one. It will only matter if they have some sentimental value to the item, or are doing the collecting for archival purposes. For the vast majority, the pdf is good enough... they have no particular desire, per se, to have the book in print, which, ultimately devalues the print items... more so immediately, and less as time passes and the OCE becomes ever more rare. Still, though, it might be as rare as the Voynich Manuscript, and it will only have historical value, for curiosity, and become "priceless." That is a bad thing, really, since priceless also means "without value."
Heh. Really, though, I'm not terribly concerned. I have mine. I'm glad people who want to see OD&D will be able to. However, what I am afraid of has nothing to do with the price or value, but "why" WotC did this... I've got all kinds of conspiracies to consider.

Your using mass production economics in relation to something that is still in very limited numbers, the print editions. A collector goes after what is rare. The PDF version is virtually unlimited so will never be a collectors item. The print edition is still a very limited number in comparison. A number which decreases avery year due to house fires, rodents, burst water pipes, ignorance throwing it in the trash, etc...

In the collectors market, as long as you have more collectors than what is available, your going to get premium prices.

PDF's do not change the collector dynamic.
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TheGM · Post by **TheGM** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:57 pm

Meh. Own the OCE, grew past playing OD&D long ago.

Gimme C&C any day.
Don.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:51 pm

TheGM wrote:
Meh. Own the OCE, grew past playing OD&D long ago.

Gimme C&C any day.
Don.

Don, I'm sure that box is taking up space and cluttering up your closet, so I'd be happy to take it off your hands. That way you'll have more room to buy C&C stuff.
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thedungeondelver · Post by **thedungeondelver** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:22 pm

My consideration of original D&D was thus: I wanted the texture provided by the game, but with the (codified and therefore easy to find) options provided by all of the supplements, plus what's in my PDF-ized copies of The Dragon and The Strategic Review.

The net result of this desire meant that essentially I was playing AD&D, just with a hell of a lot less organization and a bunch more ambiguities thrown in (ever try using Chainmail as a basis for D&D combat - it isn't easy).

So I basically (no pun intended) wound up taking the game to AD&D, and thus the campaign has gone on for quite a long while.

That isn't to say I'll never play D&D again; heck I probably will. I'll either do it as a one-shot and keep it 'pure' though or only let in a tiny, tiny bit of supplemental material because once again, if you start down the slippery slope to AD&D you'll wind up playing AD&D and at that point you're just endangering your original D&D booklets for no good reason

Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:13 pm

thedungeondelver wrote:
or only let in a tiny, tiny bit of supplemental material

That's what I'm doing. I allow the Thief (although no one is playing one) and use Greyhawk HD, but that's about it. Still using 1d6 dmg for all weapons, standard OD&D ability bonuses, et cetera.

It's been a blast, so far.

Tank · Post by **Tank** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:44 pm

I wanted to point out that you can also find the original Blackmoor book (at least I think it's original - I wasn't born yet) on Dave Arneson's page as a free download. Take a look: http://www.jovianclouds.com/blackmoor/bmc.html

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:01 pm

Tank wrote:
I wanted to point out that you can also find the original Blackmoor book (at least I think it's original - I wasn't born yet) on Dave Arneson's page as a free download. Take a look: http://www.jovianclouds.com/blackmoor/bmc.html

Yeah, Temple of the Frog and hobbits.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:59 pm

I love the fact that he has the link to WOTC on his site labeled TSR.
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