New C&C Collector's Set Owner

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:25 pm

All,

I'm a new member to this forum, deciding to join after purchasing the Collector's Edition of C&C prior to going on vacation about 3 weeks ago.

From what I read in the collector's set, the game system appears to be quite appealing, and I'm looking forward to the arrival of the PHB, M&T and Yggsburg later this week.

I began playing a hybrid of OD&D and 1E in 1978, and DMed AD&D (1E) consistently through 1989.

Marriage, family life, career, combined with the scattering of my my group of players to the four ends of the earth pretty much put my DMing days behind me.

But then, a few years ago I stumbled on some vintage D&D stuff at a used bookstore and decided to start rebuilding my collection of D&D material.

I then discovered The Acaeum D&D collector's forum and have been active there since 2005.

My goal at this point is to find a game system to introduce to my kids in the next year or two. Since 3.5 appeared to be too complex for my taste (although I'll admit I have not ruled it out completely), I began searching for an alternative, D&D-esque system that was simple and fun.

A couple of folks over on The Acaeum recommended C&C and TLG, so here I am.

I'm not sure how much I can offer in the way of advice, since I'm not an active player or DM, but hopefully I can learn some things about C&C as I begin reading the rulebooks in detail.

Thanks,

Keith

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:06 pm

Welcome and we'lol be willing to help with any C&C questions you may have.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:10 pm

Well, we are glad to have you join the Crusade! May it turn into a long and fortuitous membership!

I use C&C for my game with my kids too! Even though they were taught under 3.5E. Initially they all preferred 3E, but after about 6 sessions they started to like C&C better. Now when my two oldest create their own campaigns they use C&C. Why? Even they realize C&C is much simpler to work with and still gets the job done just fine.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:20 pm

The C&C Collectors set is FANTASTIC! Enjoy your adventures with Castles & Crusades. Welcome aboard.

.......................................Omote

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Zulgyan · Post by **Zulgyan** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:32 pm

Welcome to the crusade!

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:51 pm

Thank you all for your willingness to help.

When I first received the Collector's Edition in the mail, I was surprised (and maybe a little disappointed) that there were not more choices for character classes and there were so few monsters (I love monsters).

What I did like (a lot) were the combat system, saving throw system and CB/CL system.

Then someone on Acaeum informed me that the Collector's Edition is very watered-down and that the PHB and M&T contain significant more material.

So, as I said, I'm really looking forward to delving into this.

I was also quite impressed with the Middle Earth thread on this site and all the work being done to adapt ME to C&C. However, even though I love LOTR, a ME campaign is probably a little more than I'm looking for at this stage.

When I get the kids hooked, I want some old fashioned dungeon crawls, and it's sounding more and more like C&C is perfectly suited for that.

Thanks much,

Keith

Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:00 pm

You'll find C&C is very adaptable to differing styles. We have several standard dungeon crawlers, story tellers and a mix in between. it comes from us being a mix of so-called 'old-schoolers' and 'new-schoolers'.
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Buttmonkey · Post by **Buttmonkey** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:03 pm

Welcome to the Crusade!

Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:26 pm

Welcome to the Crusade.

R-
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Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:02 pm

I'm glad to hear there are "new schoolers" active in C&C. I'd been curious about that (the demographics, I guess I should say).

The other reason for my interest is Castle Zagyg.

I've waited 30 years to see this dungeon, so I can't wait to finally get the chance.

The fact that TLG is publishing EGG's material was a major factor in my decision.

As much as I enjoy home-brewing dungeons, being 42-years-old and having to live in the Real World means I'll primarily be using published modules.

So far, the TLG selection looks good. Plus, I suspect the old 1E modules and the Mentzer red/blue set modules are quite adaptable to C&C.

Thanks,

Keith

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:34 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
So far, the TLG selection looks good. Plus, I suspect the old 1E modules and the Mentzer red/blue set modules are quite adaptable to C&C.

Thanks,

Keith

Very much so. Mentzer is what I spent most of my time with back in the day.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:41 pm

Same here, got started in this crazy ride with Mentzer. Even to this day I still take with me to my games, the teachings of the great basic set.

As for the C&C Collector's Edition, it is an amazingly watered down version of the true C&C game. C&C Collector's, being that it is trying to emulate the original D&D hobby process, is not the full game, per se. However, C&C White Box can be used as is and still run fun, albeit very basic, fantasy adventures.

.........................................Omote

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Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:55 pm

I also noticed a Castle Keeper's Guide will soon be available.

It obviously contains contains supplementary and optional material, but it also gives me pause when I consider that one of the problems with D&D (any edition) has been a proliferation of unnecessary rule books. I'd hate to see TLG go down that same path.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:11 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
I also noticed a Castle Keeper's Guide will soon be available.

It obviously contains contains supplementary and optional material, but it also gives me pause when I consider that one of the problems with D&D (any edition) has been a proliferation of unnecessary rule books. I'd hate to see TLG go down that same path.

The CKG isn't really a necessary core book for the C&C system. Hence TLG not being in a real big hurry to put it out. ^_^
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Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:26 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
The CKG isn't really a necessary core book for the C&C system. Hence TLG not being in a real big hurry to put it out. ^_^

That's cool. It was just something that caught my eye.

Another question concerns the editions of the PHB and M&T. The PHB is in its 3rd print (great news for TLG's sales) and M&T is in its 2nd print. Are there substantial differences between these editions, or are they merely new print runs?

Thanks much,

Keith

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:42 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
That's cool. It was just something that caught my eye.

Another question concerns the editions of the PHB and M&T. The PHB is in its 3rd print (great news for TLG's sales) and M&T is in its 2nd print. Are there substantial differences between these editions, or are they merely new print runs?

Thanks much,

Keith

The poison chart/system has changed (simplified) in the latest printings, but beyond that its just fixing typo's and what not.
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meepo · Post by **meepo** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:35 am

Congratulations on the purchase! The boxed set is my preferred version of the game. I enjoy "regular" C&C just fine, but something about that boxed set really just clicks with me. I'm a believer that less is more and the CE boxed set delivers.

If you are looking for more classes, though, the PHB has 13 of 'em. You can also find lots of new classes and races online. Nice bonus of having a great online community!

Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:22 am

Keith the Thief wrote:
Thank you all for your willingness to help.

When I first received the Collector's Edition in the mail, I was surprised (and maybe a little disappointed) that there were not more choices for character classes and there were so few monsters (I love monsters).

What I did like (a lot) were the combat system, saving throw system and CB/CL system.

Then someone on Acaeum informed me that the Collector's Edition is very watered-down and that the PHB and M&T contain significant more material.

Hi Keith, Welcome to the forum and C&C.

Well, a boxed set edition it generally a scaled down version. Look at BD&D Holmes or even the OD&D box without all the supplements. Anyway, a great way to introduce the game with the basic elements and run with it.

I ran the Boxed set for about a year or so, before the PHB came out and it was great.

I believe there are still many who run C&C from the boxed set rules. At the time there was also a monster supplement available which did help and if you used the Rising Knight adventure, even more stuff is there for the taking.

But I can see one getting the boxed set and liking it and wanting to see the full set of rules and the full set of character/race combos.

I'm sure you'll be happy to get the PH/M&T.

Enjoy the game!
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:42 am

Glad to see you over here, Keith the Thief. Welcome to the Crusade!

We'll do our best to help with any questions you might have and are are always willing to dive into conversions and creating (even when said thing isn't all that needed

)

As to the differences in the printings... its 99% errata fixes, though there was a change in some layout and things for the PHB (mostly the spells got altered in how they look from 1st print to 2nd; I haven't seen a 3rd print yet) and Peter already said about the simplification and alteration of the poison system. So, basically: not much difference except in the legibility department.

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:11 pm

meepo wrote:
Congratulations on the purchase! The boxed set is my preferred version of the game.

Interesting to hear. I liked the box set, and I could certainly see how it'd be enjoyable to run. Heck, I used the OD&D boxed set back in the day until all the AD&D books were released, so I can relate.

The limited number of classes was not as big a deal to me really as the short list of monsters. I love bestiaries in general, and so one of the reasons for buying the full version of the game was to have many more monsters at my disposal.

Keith

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:12 pm

serleran wrote:
Glad to see you over here, Keith the Thief. Welcome to the Crusade!

We'll do our best to help with any questions you might have and are are always willing to dive into conversions and creating (even when said thing isn't all that needed )

As to the differences in the printings... its 99% errata fixes, though there was a change in some layout and things for the PHB (mostly the spells got altered in how they look from 1st print to 2nd; I haven't seen a 3rd print yet) and Peter already said about the simplification and alteration of the poison system. So, basically: not much difference except in the legibility department.

Thanks, Serleran. I appreciate your suggestions and help over on Acaeum and now here. Glad to be a member.

Keith

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:17 pm

Rhuvein wrote:
I ran the Boxed set for about a year or so, before the PHB came out and it was great.

I believe there are still many who run C&C from the boxed set rules. At the time there was also a monster supplement available which did help and if you used the Rising Knight adventure, even more stuff is there for the taking.

So the boxed set was actually "the" C&C game prior to the release of the PHB? I had gotten the impression that it was something that TLG created as a nostalgic collectible for old school gamers. But it's sounding like it was actually the rule set in use for a while ... or am I misreading something?

Sorry for the flurry of questions ... just trying to get my bearings.

Thanks,

Keith

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:21 pm

The C&C game as we know it in the PHB/M&T was well in development when the C&C Collector's Edtion Box Set was released. It is true that the Box set was a nostalgic version of the C&C game, but as it worked out, the C&C Collector's box was out for quite some time before the PHB was eventually released.

..........................................Omote

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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:57 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
So the boxed set was actually "the" C&C game prior to the release of the PHB? I had gotten the impression that it was something that TLG created as a nostalgic collectible for old school gamers. But it's sounding like it was actually the rule set in use for a while ... or am I misreading something?

Sorry for the flurry of questions ... just trying to get my bearings.

Thanks,

Keith

Thats pretty much why it was created. As a nostalgia release. The first "Spartan 300" were signed and numbered. The rest not so. I don't believe TLG has any plans for a reprint. So when the initial box sets are gone, they are gone. Which is not too far away at this point.

A forthcoming 9x12 sized C&C Basic boxed set will fill that void.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:07 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
A forthcoming 9x12 sized C&C Basic boxed set will fill that void.

[happy dance] I'm so looking forward to this![/happy dance]

.......................................Omote

FPQ
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> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
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Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:47 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
A forthcoming 9x12 sized C&C Basic boxed set will fill that void.

Something akin to the Holmes and/or Mentzer sets?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:03 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
Something akin to the Holmes and/or Mentzer sets?

As far as I have been able to tell from the various hints dropped? Yes.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:37 pm

Keith the Thief wrote:
Something akin to the Holmes and/or Mentzer sets?

I think this boxed set is more geared towards the younger folks, so I would think it's gonna be more like Mentzer who does more explaining and teaching as it were, about running D&D.

I did find the C&C Collector's Box more reminiscent of Holmes box, but probably a little easily to understand and get started.

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"Enjoy a 'world' where the fantastic is fact and magic really works!" ~ Gary Gygax

"By the pricking of my thumbs, Something wicked this way comes:" - Macbeth

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:11 am

What'll come down to is who writes it, to be honest. Steve is more like "ok, this is how things are like, what they do, and stuff, and how you should feel playing... oh, and here's a rule for that, in case you think you need it." Davis, though, is more like me (scary) and will say things like "here's how you do this and this to get that effect, and if you wanna make it different, change this."

I imagine the "basic set" will be mostly concept, with some smattering of "rules" and of those, they will be primarily changes to make things even easier (like removal of class and race choice... it'll just be race, except humans who get to pick a class, for example.)

Keith the Thief · Post by **Keith the Thief** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:06 pm

serleran wrote:
What'll come down to is who writes it, to be honest. Steve is more like "ok, this is how things are like, what they do, and stuff, and how you should feel playing... oh, and here's a rule for that, in case you think you need it." Davis, though, is more like me (scary) and will say things like "here's how you do this and this to get that effect, and if you wanna make it different, change this."

I imagine the "basic set" will be mostly concept, with some smattering of "rules" and of those, they will be primarily changes to make things even easier (like removal of class and race choice... it'll just be race, except humans who get to pick a class, for example.)

It sounds like Steve and Davis make a good team for this kind of product: one person who's more inclined toward the emotional appeal of the game while the other is more inclined toward the mechanics.