Hammer & Anvil, issue 7 and onward

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:45 pm

Starting with Crusader 7, Hammer & Anvil will focus on the creative process behind designing a small homebrew campaign. The idea is to present some ideas for making a campaign feel rich and detailed without spending a ton of time and potentially wasted effort on actual detail.

When the series is complete (maybe six or seven issues) I'd like the compilation to contain a mini-campaign setting that a CK can use.

I'm looking for suggestions on the best method for doing this.

1) I can include the crunch of the campaign in a "second part" of each column. Taking the "second parts" gives you the "text" of the campaign setting itself. This would include rules changes, lore, background, maps, etc.

The "how I got there" stuff would come in the first part, and sort of describe the process used to come up with the crunchy bits.

2) I can concentrate on the "how I got there" with provided examples, and then at the end of the series offer the setting as a free download for Crusader subscribers. This would be a PDF hosted by the Trolls with a special URL in the article text pointing to the document.

I haven't run either of these past Steve, but I thought I'd take an informal poll and see what subscribers would prefer. I'm guessing #2, but I want to make sure that helpful material is present to help anyone looking for examples and advice.

Thanks for any input you might have!
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:49 pm

I think it's a great idea to include the how to's, and then in the same article, each month have a small piece of the setting. Once the mini setting is complete, then maybe TLG could release it as a .pdf setting. Either way, this sounds like a great idea for an article.

.....................................Omote

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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:15 pm

Sounds like a great idea to me, I'm always on the lookout for new campaign settings.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:26 pm

It does not serve anyone if you talk about how to and not then show them the results of the work. For example, if you're discussing "how to make a world have a dark feel" and you don't then make something dark so they understand the "process," the how to was useless. So, absolutely, include the result!

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:26 pm

I agree with Omote and Serleran.
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:02 am

I'm dead set against how-to's

/sarcasm

sounds like a great idea. I agree, you will need to and should include the world as you go as an example.

Cheers,

J.

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:16 pm

Thanks for the input, folks. I will need to be pretty judicious in my word count, but I'll aim to please. Perhaps a condensed crunchy version in the magazine, just to illustrate my points, along with a more meaty download when all is said and done?

In any case, I hope the setting is interesting to the readers. We have some jaded old pros in our circulation.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:12 pm

Do you/did you any chance subscribe to Dungeon magazine? Monte Cook did a very similiar article series for DUngeon a year or two ago. Or was it 3 years ago?

Anyways, if you do have those issues, or know someone who does, I recommend you read them and see how to do a better job. Not that Monte did a bad job, just that I remember there being things I would have done differently, items I would have given more attention to, that kind of thing.

At the very least it can help you create an outline for your own work.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:04 pm

Treebore wrote:
Do you/did you any chance subscribe to Dungeon magazine? Monte Cook did a very similiar article series for DUngeon a year or two ago. Or was it 3 years ago?

I haven't read Dungeon in the "modern era" though I have a great respect for it in general. If I can get a transcript, I'd be glad to try to one-up Monte.
For now, I'll just concentrate on the mini-setting. I'm not sure how it will be received by the gaming public, but for me, it really energized my creativity and play sessions were a great deal of fun, until I had to move.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:28 pm

Ok, so I went through my campaign notes.

Part of me wishes I'd just broken up the writing I've done into chunks and just presented the campaign setting without all the advice.
As it is, we might be seeing this thing come in installments over the next 12 issues.
So, I think I'm going to break it up into chunks like this:

1) the concept

2) defining the campaign area (geography, etc)

3) the culture and theology

4) house rules

5) new class

6) adventure hooks

That doesn't cover all aspects of the creative process, but it at least addresses the major steps.

Fiff.
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Ghul · Post by **Ghul** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:11 pm

Fiff--

Just wanted to pipe in and say this is a great idea. It can help the time-constrained CK at home trying to put his campaign world together; likewise, it can help the game designer in making sure that all bases are covered. Looking forward to checking this out.

Cheers,

--Jeff T.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:16 pm

One might wish to include some very basic ideas on ecology. At least, as it pertains to the terrain... like, "Deciding what monsters live nearby" rather than something more in depth like a biosphere or something.

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:25 pm

serleran wrote:
One might wish to include some very basic ideas on ecology. At least, as it pertains to the terrain... like, "Deciding what monsters live nearby" rather than something more in depth like a biosphere or something.

Good point. I'll include some of my criteria for that.

Thanks!
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:13 pm

If you own them, and for further TLG advertisement, point out how useful Gary's worldbuilder books are when deciding and creating various aspects of a game. Or Expeditious Retreats books. Or any and all books you do have, and actuallly use. Whose publishers are still active.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:18 pm

Yeah, yeah, and make sure you mention how awesome Engineering Dungeons is, on every page.

Hehe.

Naw, the Gygax stuff is a good plug.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:07 pm

serleran wrote:
Yeah, yeah, and make sure you mention how awesome Engineering Dungeons is, on every page. Hehe.

Naw, the Gygax stuff is a good plug.

If Fiff has a copy he should definitely point out when its a useful reference for working things out.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:10 pm

I've plugged The Extraordinary Book of Names in the column before...I see no reason why I can't mention my sources. There are actually a great many sources for this project, and some of them aren't Open Content, so I need to be careful how much I put in the articles.
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:52 pm

If you can definitely list your resources. Joe Browning did that for his MMA: Western Europe and Silk road products, and the resources have been pretty darn good in their own right.

Besides, if your resources are currently produced RPG materials I can likely help you get permission to use them.

If your resources are text book type deals just do proper quoting and bibliographies.
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Post by **Fiffergrund** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:38 pm

I'll definitely submit a list of sources - whether they are included in the articles depends on space.

Right now it looks like this thing will stretch over 9 issues.

I. #7 The Concept

II. #8 The Culture

III. #9 The Environs, Part I

IV. #10 The Environs, Part II

V. #11 The Environs, Part III

VI. #12 The Rules, Part I

VII. #13 The Rules, Part II

VIII. #14 Adventuring in the Setting

IX. #15 Expansion of the campaign
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:15 pm

Magic and the like fall into the "rules" section? I mean, things like new spells, new artifacts, or whatever? Not every world needs it, of course, but I'm curious where'd they go... sounds like some good reading, in any event. Might help me make The Doldrums less boring.

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:29 pm

serleran wrote:
Magic and the like fall into the "rules" section? I mean, things like new spells, new artifacts, or whatever? Not every world needs it, of course, but I'm curious where'd they go... sounds like some good reading, in any event. Might help me make The Doldrums less boring.

Yep, magic system alterations and other house rules fall in the "Rules" section. There will be some *new* things, but most of it is existing stuff that is reworked to fit the theme of the setting.

New monsters might fall in that category as well, but I only have a couple.
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:39 pm

[perhaps missing the obvious]

I've just been through a pretty exhaustive thread and have been widely taken to task about how role players don't need how-to's to teach them how to play the game

and yet, this is a near prototypical how-to

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm seriously baffled.

why the contradiction? Why do people see value in this, yet at the same time argue that people don't need these kinds of instructions..

Cheers,

J.

[/threadjack]

Post by **Fiffergrund** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:35 pm

I think it's a fair question, but I don't think there's a parallel here.

"How to play" is a pretty broad spectrum of ideas. This is a very specific topic about "how-to make a campaign unique on limited time."

Also, I think having it in a Crusader column carries a different connotation than if it were a main chapter in the CKG.

That might explain some of the differences, but others may have comments.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:43 pm

There is a categorical distinction between "how to roleplay" and "how to make a world." One, making a world involves the rules... per force, it mandates them, even if its all about the "feel." Also, world building is purely about forcing the imagination to think... an instruction book on how to roleplay is a manual of "what to do to do it right" putting them at opposite ends of the design spectrum: one is "hey, you can do this to do that" and the other is "this is how you do that." World building also assumes some understanding, a preconceived "intelligence" about the subject... a guide to roleplay does not; in fact, the latter assumes the reader knows nothing about the subject. I would rather see 100000 world building books than 1 on Roleplaying for Dummies.

But, I do think, as said in the other thread, there are ways to go about doing the "roleplay guide" without it being a "dummy book." Its a matter of finding them, and exploiting them.

jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:50 pm

ok, I'm going to drop this now, in this thread because I don't want to divert this, however, at no time was I inferring that the 'how-to' was only limited to the very narrow constraints on "playing the game"... in my mind at least, world building guidance for new ck's is essential information that you'd want to share in any kind of "how-to" guide.

Good idea, for the article anyway.

cheers,

J.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:25 pm

Heh, and like in the other thread, 95% of what you want is the CKG (which is, after all THE GUIDE.) Besides, I changed my view in that other thread, once I understood exactly what you were looking more toward, rather than what it seemed...

Oh, and last thing: to me, a book that covers how to build a world is actually telling you how to play because it is giving you the instructions needed to make the game exactly what you want... but, it is presented in a different matter, and presentation is vital. It is also geared toward the CK and not players, who should only be concerned with their characters and the rules. The world, and the game, is the CKs "stuff."

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:09 pm

I think the big appeal is that thsi will be a "strem lined" approach. Which will appeal to a wider range of CK's. I doubt there are very many like me who own probably 20 books or more (from various editions/versions of D&D or Harn) and at least a dozen PDf's on these kind of details of world creation.

Other than Harn people I rarely meet gamers who worry about an economic system that works and makes at least as good a sense as our real world economics.

Heck, I was even lucky enough to get some pointers on "homebrew" economics from the Nobel Prize Winner on Economics at the University of AZ. However, after his win was announced his e-mails went unanswered. As far as I can tell he is still faculty there. Guess he wanted to isolate himself from the media.
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