What would you do if.... (how to rule certain situations as a CK)
I wanted to start a thread where people can post and answer questions on how to handle different situations the players find themselves in, or different things they try. (Stuff that perhaps should be in a CKG!)
For starters, I have a few questions...
Running/Jogging/Walking and combat...
The PHB states that you can move up to half your movement rate and still attack. That would mean about 15 feet for a non-encumbered human - correct? The only time a character can attack while moving faster is if he/she is charging. But what about jogging/half running? Should I consider that to be a free move at half the distance... i.e. jogging for a non-encumbered human would be 30 feet per round then an attack free of penalties!
The reason I ask this is that I use miniatures for character placement, and don't want to get too technical & anal when it comes to restricting mini/character movement. I feel that a Monk should be able to run 10 feet sideways, 5 feet up along a wall, jump off and kick his foe 5 feet away from the wall, thereby avoiding his comrades and possibly flanking his foe while getting an exciting attack in the process. That's a total of 25-30 feet! If I strictly use the C&C PHB rule then he won't do it.
What do you think????
Extraordinary maneuvers
Going back to that monk who wants to perform an exciting attack... any advice on how to handle this? Should I just simply allow it or should I start doing various DEX/STR checks. I would rather not restrict his movement and then apply Jump, Tumble and misc DEX checks a-la-3.5 system. Just curious how others handle this sort of thing.
Swimming
How can this be handled in C&C? What would be a good rule to use that would be fair and easy to implement? I hated the fact that in my 2nd ed game we either know how to swim (one of the proficiencies) or we drown!
Tests of endurance
When an opponent is chasing you, or you are required to hang on as long as possible, or perhaps a drinking contest... etc... I hate it when a character with a CON of 18 vs a character with a CON of 12 is taken down in a drinking contest. Or The stronger PC isn't able to bash open a door where as a weaker PC walks up and the player happens to roll a 20 and VOILA - bashes the door. How about when you are running as fast as you can and your enemy is keeping up with your every pace. How can a CK properly and justly determine who will win the race without having to rely on mostly 'luck'.
Thanks in advance for the info!
What would you do if (how to rule certain situations as CK)
1) Given that the player has presented a very descriptive and evocative description of his action, I simply allow the action, without penalties or consideration of "what kind of movement it is." I don't generally bother with these things, unless there is a specific need to do so. For example, a chase: the character's running speed (double base movement) is going to be important. The "rules" aren't there to constrain your creativity... bend them whenever you desire, and as you said... you feel the monk should be able to do it, so, the monk can. What more do you need?
2) I wouldn't make the monk make any kind of check for it, seeing as its not running straight up a wall (that would be a climb check, by the way). Essentially, the monk is bracing off the wall, and back-flipping, or cartwheeling away. Part of the "mystic training," in my opinion, and standard fare for the wuxia/Oriental version of the monk class.
3) All characters can swim their base movement, unless they have a noted swim speed. Characters can float at 5 feet (movement in the direction of current) indefinitely. Otherwise, every half hour of swimming has a Constitution check with a cumulative difficulty equal to the number of checks made. Failure means the character starts to drown. If the character only swims at half their maximum speed, they gain a +4 bonus on swimming checks.
4) Allow a certain number of automatic saves based on the stat, with cumulative difficulty equal to the number of saves required. For example, a Con of 18 grants a character 4 automatic Con saves in a drinking contest, whereas a 12 Con grants none. After four drinks, the 18 is fine and dandy (has only a +2 on the next save), but the 12 Con has a +10 difficulty on the save (+2 / save) for the fifth. This makes it far less likely a lower score can out-match a higher score. If score is Prime, add +2 to the "free" saves. In this way, a 12 Con Prime might beat a 18 Con non-Prime, but the 12 Con Prime versus a 18 Con Prime is essentially the same as without Prime.
2) I wouldn't make the monk make any kind of check for it, seeing as its not running straight up a wall (that would be a climb check, by the way). Essentially, the monk is bracing off the wall, and back-flipping, or cartwheeling away. Part of the "mystic training," in my opinion, and standard fare for the wuxia/Oriental version of the monk class.
3) All characters can swim their base movement, unless they have a noted swim speed. Characters can float at 5 feet (movement in the direction of current) indefinitely. Otherwise, every half hour of swimming has a Constitution check with a cumulative difficulty equal to the number of checks made. Failure means the character starts to drown. If the character only swims at half their maximum speed, they gain a +4 bonus on swimming checks.
4) Allow a certain number of automatic saves based on the stat, with cumulative difficulty equal to the number of saves required. For example, a Con of 18 grants a character 4 automatic Con saves in a drinking contest, whereas a 12 Con grants none. After four drinks, the 18 is fine and dandy (has only a +2 on the next save), but the 12 Con has a +10 difficulty on the save (+2 / save) for the fifth. This makes it far less likely a lower score can out-match a higher score. If score is Prime, add +2 to the "free" saves. In this way, a 12 Con Prime might beat a 18 Con non-Prime, but the 12 Con Prime versus a 18 Con Prime is essentially the same as without Prime.
serleran wrote:
1) Given that the player has presented a very descriptive and evocative description of his action, I simply allow the action, without penalties
Cool! Just as would I - to some limit (the monk can't suddenly start floating as in those movies!)
serleran wrote:
Allow a certain number of automatic saves based on the stat, with cumulative difficulty equal to the number of saves required. For example, a Con of 18 grants a character 4 automatic Con saves in a drinking contest, whereas a 12 Con grants none....
Excellent.
Thanks again. I'm sure to have more examples and would like to see others as well if anyone has any. I just love how C&C makes everything so easy.
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ClancytheFancy
- Henchman
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now, if some other class (not a monk) wanted to do that same manuever, there would have to be some sort of dex check. Also, as the ck you would probably want to take them outside and beat them for acting like a monk even thought they aren't.
now, I saw an interesting situation the other day. There was a charachter that was a monk specialized in the art of throwing people. He was knocked down and was laying underneath a tiger. Now, keep in mind that this wasn't some blouse wearing pansy tiger, it was a full grown pissed off 800-1000lb tiger. so the charachter says that he wants to pick it up and throw it. It's obviously a strength check, but would the charachter get a bonus for being "specialized" according to the description? He had strength of 17.
now, I saw an interesting situation the other day. There was a charachter that was a monk specialized in the art of throwing people. He was knocked down and was laying underneath a tiger. Now, keep in mind that this wasn't some blouse wearing pansy tiger, it was a full grown pissed off 800-1000lb tiger. so the charachter says that he wants to pick it up and throw it. It's obviously a strength check, but would the charachter get a bonus for being "specialized" according to the description? He had strength of 17.
No, since lifting is not the same as throwing, and I would not allow the character to lift the tiger, in any case, based solely off logic (the tiger weighs too much for the character to simply lift him off, no matter how great the roll... but, he might still manage to push a paw away; see below.) Now, if the character simply wishes to escape, then I would allow the player to choose between Strength or Dexterity, but would have to describe how the attribute was being applied (Strength would probably be some sort of raw power, pushing the tiger away, and Dexterity would be wriggling free.) However, if he gets away, and the tiger pounces, the character would then be able to throw it, using whatever applicable bonuses are present.
Essentially, one is dealing with two different situations and styles in this contest: one is wrestling, and the other is more akin to judo.
Essentially, one is dealing with two different situations and styles in this contest: one is wrestling, and the other is more akin to judo.
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ClancytheFancy
- Henchman
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Combat_Kyle
- Ulthal
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ClancytheFancy wrote:
that seems to work... hmmm. in game, the dm ruled no throw except on natural 20 and the guy rolled it. I felt bad for the dm. the guythrew the tiger into another crowd of tigers and hurt 3 or 4 altogether. it was an arena.
There are times common sense has to trump dice rolling. Having a rule that a nat 20 roll is always a sucess no matter what means the players always have a %5 chance for their character to succeed anything. Some things are just a bit too ridiculous to allow on a nat 20 (throwing a 1000lb tiger for example). A good rule of thumb to allow a nat 20 to succeed is to ask yourself "does X action have a %5 chance to succeed." If I was running that session I would only allow the player to throw the tiger if they had a 18 or higher Str score and rolled back to back nat 20s. But then again I like the harsh, gritty style of play and usually dislike the tounge in cheek style of play.
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But the DM did a fine off the cuff ruling. I'm not sure what I would have done "on the spot", but I hope I would have said no throwing, but escaping is possible.
I definitely would not have allowed for specialization, there is a huge difference between throwing a two foot versus a 4 foot creature. 4 feet give much better balance for countering the throws, then when you add in the well above 200 lbs human weight for the 800 to 1,000 lbs tiger, it is definitely in the realm of
"impossible".
As for the swim question in the OP make sure to take encumbrance into account as a modifier to the TN. The 5 foot floating would only be indefinite if your unencumbered. The higher the incumbrance the more frequent the check and the higher the TN.
As for the monk, I would interpret what you described as a charge, because it is a fully committed kind of attack and I would have just required a DEX check at a TN of 12 (if Dex is Prime) to make sure they didn't mess up the move, then a to hit roll. If they blew the dex check I would of had them slip or trip and do a second check to avoid going prone.
Plus you just made me realize that I house ruled movement. I allow 30 foot of movement and an attack. Assuming light encumbrance. I'll have to add that to my house rule list.
I definitely would not have allowed for specialization, there is a huge difference between throwing a two foot versus a 4 foot creature. 4 feet give much better balance for countering the throws, then when you add in the well above 200 lbs human weight for the 800 to 1,000 lbs tiger, it is definitely in the realm of
"impossible".
As for the swim question in the OP make sure to take encumbrance into account as a modifier to the TN. The 5 foot floating would only be indefinite if your unencumbered. The higher the incumbrance the more frequent the check and the higher the TN.
As for the monk, I would interpret what you described as a charge, because it is a fully committed kind of attack and I would have just required a DEX check at a TN of 12 (if Dex is Prime) to make sure they didn't mess up the move, then a to hit roll. If they blew the dex check I would of had them slip or trip and do a second check to avoid going prone.
Plus you just made me realize that I house ruled movement. I allow 30 foot of movement and an attack. Assuming light encumbrance. I'll have to add that to my house rule list.
Since its 20,000 I suggest "Captain Nemo" as his title. Beyond the obvious connection, he is one who sails on his own terms and ignores those he doesn't agree with...confident in his journey and goals.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.
Sounds obvious to me! -Gm Michael
Grand Knight Commander of the Society.