Mixing C&C and AD&D

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:01 pm

Has anyone imported rules from AD&D to C&C?

Most of the material I have is for AD&D, so I was thinking of essentially using C&C classes (with some tweaks), races (idem) and the combat rules; essentially, the core of C&C.

All the rest would be AD&D (some attribute effects, spells, spells per day, monsters etc.), namely all the things that would need a "conversion" (albeit small) to be done prior to play.

Cheers,

Antonio

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:07 pm

I'd only bother with the stuff that C&C doesn't have BtB, like some spells and magic items. The rest is pretty much covered. But, I would modify the spells / day for the casters, to better reflect AD&D rather than d20.

SavageRobby · Post by **SavageRobby** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:08 pm

I was planning on mixing the spells from the PHB and UA (and also the Wizards Spell Compendium, and the Priests, if I ever get it) in with the C&C spells, so I don't see why you couldn't. I'd use the C&C 0-level spells over what few AD&D 0-level spells there are, though.

I'm also going to add spells back to the Paladin (which fits in nicely with the gods from the Book of the Righteous, which I'm using for my Wilderlands game).

I've so far been converting monsters from the MM, FF and MM2 if they didn't already exist in the C&CMT, so I know that is easily done as well.

Fizz · Post by **Fizz** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:24 pm

I use the non-weapon proficiency rules (slightly tweaked) from the Survival Guides (and/or 2nd Ed PH). They mesh quite well.

-Fizz

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:06 pm

I am not completely sure of how to proceed. The idea would be to replace all "dynamic" parts of AD&D with corresponding parts of C&C, since they are generally more "lite", and do not directly enter the descriptions in existing material.

So, attacks, saving throws and attribute checks would work as in C&C. On the other hand, I would like to keep some "static" parts of AD&D. For example:

- the bonus due to Constitution (higher for Fighters)

- the number of bonus languages due to Intelligence

- number of spells known by magic-users as a function of Intelligence

- retain (at least some of) the damage bonus for Fighters with exceptional Strength

- the number of bonus spells for Clerics

- tables of spells per day for all spellcasters

- Spellcasting Rangers and Paladins

So, it would essentially be C&C with some tweaks, and AD&D "appendices".

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:11 pm

I forgot; some neat things of AD&D combat could be ported into C&C easily, e.g.:

- characters with a ready missile weapon would add their dex bonus to initiative

- characters who win surprise would get double the rate of fire with missile weapons

- the rule of helmets: characters not wearing helmets are hit 1 on 6 on AC10 head by non intelligent monsters; 1-3 on 6 by intelligent adversaries.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:48 pm

"static" parts of AD&D. For example:

- the bonus due to Constitution (higher for Fighters) Very easy to do

- the number of bonus languages due to Intelligence Very doable

- number of spells known by magic-users as a function of Intelligence Totally doable

- retain (at least some of) the damage bonus for Fighters with exceptional Strength Doable as well.

- the number of bonus spells for Clerics Ditto

- tables of spells per day for all spellcasters Yes.

- Spellcasting Rangers and Paladins Yes. In fact it looked to me like you could use classes as is (with the obvious conversions needed) from 1E and even 2E.

- characters with a ready missile weapon would add their dex bonus to initiative 'Sure it can work.

- characters who win surprise would get double the rate of fire with missile weapons I think this will work

- the rule of helmets: characters not wearing helmets are hit 1 on 6 on AC10 head by non intelligent monsters; 1-3 on 6 by intelligent adversaries. Can definitely be used.
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Dangersaurus · Post by **Dangersaurus** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:13 am

rabindranath72 wrote:
Has anyone imported rules from AD&D to C&C?

Most of the material I have is for AD&D, so I was thinking of essentially using C&C classes (with some tweaks), races (idem) and the combat rules; essentially, the core of C&C.

All the rest would be AD&D (some attribute effects, spells, spells per day, monsters etc.), namely all the things that would need a "conversion" (albeit small) to be done prior to play.

Cheers,

Antonio

I've imported Loyalty from 1e as-is, and modified Morale from 2e. Henchmen and hireling rules are easy (although those aren't really "rules" per se, just guidelines for finding one type and prices for hiring the other). Overland movement and encounter probabilities are easy to use straight from AD&D as well.

Oh yeah - my rules for grenade-like missiles (fire, acid, holy water) are from the 1e PHB.

slimykuotoan · Post by **slimykuotoan** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:26 am

Wilderness Survival Guide, Dungeoneers Survival Guide, and Manual of the Planes 'as is'.

Simply great books...

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:28 am

rabindranath72 wrote:
Has anyone imported rules from AD&D to C&C?

Most of the material I have is for AD&D, so I was thinking of essentially using C&C classes (with some tweaks), races (idem) and the combat rules; essentially, the core of C&C.

All the rest would be AD&D (some attribute effects, spells, spells per day, monsters etc.), namely all the things that would need a "conversion" (albeit small) to be done prior to play.

Cheers,

Antonio

I attempted to do this for my "revised" player's handbook and "Unearthed Arcana" books. UA isn't done (almost there) and, after that, I may try to tackle the Monster Manuals.

Check out the my link and go to the Houserules & CK Materials section.

Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:32 am

csperkins1970 wrote:
I attempted to do this for my "revised" player's handbook

Great job!
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Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:40 pm

Not yet - I'm still unpacking my AD&D books. I might sit down and try to convert the thief-acrobat this weekend.

I definitely want to use the monster races from Complete Book of Humanoids some day.

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:27 pm

The only thing I've directly lifted out of 1E is secondary skills. Other then that, I've used 1E magic items, and many ideas from the 1E DMG. I can;t say really, besides secondary skills that I've mixed the systems per se. I probably have, but just never realized I was doing so.

.........................................Omote

FPQ
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papercut · Post by **papercut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:17 am

csperkins1970 wrote:
I attempted to do this for my "revised" player's handbook and "Unearthed Arcana" books. UA isn't done (almost there) and, after that, I may try to tackle the Monster Manuals.

Check out the my link and go to the Houserules & CK Materials section.

amazing, and right on time.

areola · Post by **areola** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:28 am

hey, not to hijack or anything but i was wondering abt cleric's spell conversion from AD&D to C&C since AD&D cleric spells go up to 7th level only not 9

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:14 am

I live abroad and I plan to use the quickstart rules, the phb that csperkins links along with some basic monster stuff from the RC to run a group on skype. If it is a hit, I foresee us purchasing more C&C material (core books, etc).

edited due to my stupidity!

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:02 am

Hey,

If you like my houserule document then I'd recommend you support C&C wholeheartedly. It's the foundation that my rules are based on, though it differs significantly from my take on C&C.
Monsters & Treasures is the best monster book to use with my revised rules because it's the most compatible... though you could use AD&D books, the Rules Compendium (the old version, not the one for 35) or 3.X critters.

papercut · Post by **papercut** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:02 pm

Super,

I'm going to use your two books as the base for my first few games. I picked up the 1e DMG and Rules Cyclopedia for a total of $8 off Paizo as well for flavor, options, and a few more monsters. Nice deal.

I wish the CnC books were available as downloads. Taiwan is far, but I think they will be on my bookshelf one day.

Is there any starter Greyhawk content you would recommend? Your site suggests Greyhawk, I grew up with 2e and beyond so I don't have much background with that world. Do you think a general kind of FR lore would mesh with your system?

Cheers

csperkins1970 · Post by **csperkins1970** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:01 pm

papercut wrote:
Super,

I'm going to use your two books as the base for my first few games. I picked up the 1e DMG and Rules Cyclopedia for a total of $8 off Paizo as well for flavor, options, and a few more monsters. Nice deal.

I wish the CnC books were available as downloads. Taiwan is far, but I think they will be on my bookshelf one day.

Is there any starter Greyhawk content you would recommend? Your site suggests Greyhawk, I grew up with 2e and beyond so I don't have much background with that world. Do you think a general kind of FR lore would mesh with your system?

Cheers

The old Greyhawk boxed set from 1983 is available on eBay or as a download from Paizo. The old map makes having a hardcopy worth while... though getting it shipped to Taiwan might be a problem.

TLG is putting out Castle Zagyg material and, while ported over to another world, it is classic Greyhawk content.

rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:04 pm

papercut wrote:
Super,

I'm going to use your two books as the base for my first few games. I picked up the 1e DMG and Rules Cyclopedia for a total of $8 off Paizo as well for flavor, options, and a few more monsters. Nice deal.

I wish the CnC books were available as downloads. Taiwan is far, but I think they will be on my bookshelf one day.

Is there any starter Greyhawk content you would recommend? Your site suggests Greyhawk, I grew up with 2e and beyond so I don't have much background with that world. Do you think a general kind of FR lore would mesh with your system?

Cheers

For Greyhawk, a good primer and introduction by the Author himself is the Greyhawk Boxed Set:
http://paizo.com/store/downloads/wizard ... awk&page=2

If you want a bit less detailed setting which you can "fill" more at your leisure (for example, introducing deities of your creation), you can find the Folio quite useful (on the same page as before). It contains somewhat less information than the boxed set, therefore it is more customisable. Also, it contains two pages of runes which are useful if you want to run Temple of Elemental Evil (whereas the runes described in the boxed set are not the same runes).

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:19 pm

We've used rules from the BECMI/Classic D&D. But not AD&D.

I wasn't ever really too big a fan of AD&D. That's mostly why I skipped AD&D2. And really, TSR was putting out stuff for basic D&D long after second edition been around. So it was the longest in-print D&D yet, right?
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rabindranath72 · Post by **rabindranath72** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:23 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
We've used rules from the BECMI/Classic D&D. But not AD&D.

I wasn't ever really too big a fan of AD&D. That's mostly why I skipped AD&D2. And really, TSR was putting out stuff for basic D&D long after second edition been around. So it was the longest in-print D&D yet, right?

Well, I guess you are right. Classic D&D has been round longer than AD&D1e, and extended well into the 2e period (perhaps until its end?)

Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:24 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
We've used rules from the BECMI/Classic D&D. But not AD&D.

I wasn't ever really too big a fan of AD&D. That's mostly why I skipped AD&D2. And really, TSR was putting out stuff for basic D&D long after second edition been around. So it was the longest in-print D&D yet, right?

Yes. Dungeons & Dragons (Basic D&D) was around in print for the longest period of time. It also depends where you consider the starting point for "Basic" Dugneons & Dragons. If we just look at Mentzer Basic (to include Rules Cyclopedia BD&D), that started in 1981 and went through 1994.

-O
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areola · Post by **areola** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:45 pm

papercut wrote:
I wish the CnC books were available as downloads. Taiwan is far, but I think they will be on my bookshelf one day.

Hey, a fellow asian... I am from Malaysia and I also can't find C&C here. Wish my bookstore would stock them or my local gameshop. Its only WOTC products over here...

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:51 pm

areola wrote:
Hey, a fellow asian... I am from Malaysia and I also can't find C&C here. Wish my bookstore would stock them or my local gameshop. Its only WOTC products over here...

The M&T is available in PDF, so the Players book is the only one to get hold of in print. Plus it looks like the Trolls will be making a Players Book PDF available some time in their life time.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:55 pm

Treebore wrote:
Plus it looks like the Trolls will be making a Players Book PDF available some time in their life time.

Oooh! Troll have short lifespans I hear. That makes it certain we shall see it in OUR lifetime. Yay.

-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:02 pm

Omote wrote:
Yes. Dungeons & Dragons (Basic D&D) was around in print for the longest period of time. It also depends where you consider the starting point for "Basic" Dugneons & Dragons. If we just look at Mentzer Basic (to include Rules Cyclopedia BD&D), that started in 1981 and went through 1994.

-O

Aw, man. We can come up with a few of the 'Basic' D&D stuff that came after '94. Can't we?
Eye of the Wyvern

I have no clue what that module was about but it's not AD&D. And I had thought the Poor Wizard's Almanac was more recent then '94. It wasn't. Volume 3 right at '94. (My copy was a reprint with a '99 date).
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:05 pm

Yeah I forgot about that basic version of D&D that came out in 98 or 99. Really, that was a lousy box set, and not a great attempt at basic anything (at least in my opinion). But yes, you are right, Basic did pick back up in the late 90s as part of the Silver Anniversary of D&D. Good call.

-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:08 pm

Omote wrote:
Yeah I forgot about that basic version of D&D that came out in 98 or 99. Really, that was a lousy box set, and not a great attempt at basic anything (at least in my opinion). But yes, you are right, Basic did pick back up in the late 90s as part of the Silver Anniversary of D&D. Good call.

-O

Or lousy. Since I reminded you of a best-forgotten boxed set.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:19 pm

Although, from a Collector's point of view there are actually two versions of the Silver Anniversary Basic Box set. One of the sets was a slimmer, normal-sized box set version. The other, was over-sized in a mammoth box that was about 10" x 15" by about the same depth. But, the material inside was the same, and just not as good as RC, Basic, or even Classic versions of basic D&D.

-O
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