Starting a C&C campaign.

Rhone1 · Post by **Rhone1** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:20 am

Okay, so I'm about to start my first C&C campaign (was first introduced to the game at Gen Con a couple of weeks ago) and would like some opinions from the gallery.

First of all, since I am new at this game, setting, etc I have decided to stick with the C&C modules at least for the first 6 - 12 months. I was planning on running the party thru The Rising Knight first and then start Assault on Blacktooth Ridge. So, is that a good idea? The players, myself included, are all long time gamers, all in their 30's - 40's and have been playing 3.5 D&D for the last few years.

Secondly, I used to use the D&D minis for my games...anyone else using those? What about the paper counters you can download off the internet, anyone have any experience using those? If so, which company makes the best one's?

Finally, I have been using the D&D cardboard tiles for my games but am considering uisng something like the fatdragon printable ones or dunjinni. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Pretty much the only thing I've ruled out is dwarven forge, as it just takes up too much space.

Post by **Breakdaddy** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:58 am

Excellent! Welcome to the C&C game. I use the alea tools magnetic color coded pieces to represent figs in my game. They are pricey, but in the long run less pricey than buying separate figs for individual creatures. Make sure you read over the rising knight and power it down a bit as necessary to fit your group. Remember that in C&C, the default answer is YES and not NO. If I cant find a reason to not let my players do something within about two seconds of them asking to do it, then Ill probably let them roll a SIEGE check to try!

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:00 am

Rising Knight and Assault on Blacktooth Ridge, is a nice way to kick off a campaign, there are also two $1.00 PDF modules set in Blacktooth Ridge that can be bought to further flesh out the area. The rest of the "A" series is rolling on as well, so you should have plenty of modules to keep going for quite a while.

As for Mini's I never used them but don't see a problem with using them.
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Telhawk · Post by **Telhawk** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:12 am

All welcomes, Rhone1. With regard to the D&D minis - from my perspective, the answer is a solid Yes. My brothers and I have used those very affordable plastic ones to great effect over the last couple of games; although C&C is definitely not a d20 descendent, the usefulness of miniatures to help keep track of scale is pretty much universal.

While I only have passing familiarity with "Rising Knight", I can say, in all seriousness, that "Assault on Blacktooth Ridge" will provide you and your group with hours of diversion. I once described that work as not so much a standard "module", as a collection of excellent geographically-based adventure hooks; I still stand by that. Just make sure your boys and girls have got a good cleric with them...once that dungeon crawl starts in Vaglrolg, they'll be needing to visit the ambulatory M*A*S*H unit frequently.

SoulCatcher78 · Post by **SoulCatcher78** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:15 am

no minis used here (piece of paper for location notes) but all is well.

Beacon at Enon Tor as a playtest mod is a great starter (haven't looked closely at the other though).

Rhone1 · Post by **Rhone1** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:46 am

Thanks for the replies!

What about maps or mapping programs? Anyone use them or just the standard graph paper?

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:48 am

Personally, I'd recommend Haunted Highlands and the DB series as a good start off for a campaign than I would Assault on Blacktooth Ridge and the series.

The DB series is awesome, more open and seems to have a quicker production schedule.

moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:58 am

Rhone1 wrote:
Thanks for the replies!

What about maps or mapping programs? Anyone use them or just the standard graph paper?

Welcome to the Crusade!

Well, I would say that mostly anything you might have used for a D&D game should fit quite nicely for C&C. I'll use graph paper for simplicity however, I rather like Dundjinni as a program. If I used mini's on a more regular level, I'd probably use a mapping program a lot more for key battles (various battlemaps). As it stands, I occasionally use it to make maps of certain locations for adventures of my own creation.

I've also used DungeonCrafter...

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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:08 am

First of all, since I am new at this game, setting, etc I have decided to stick with the C&C modules at least for the first 6 - 12 months. I was planning on running the party thru The Rising Knight first and then start Assault on Blacktooth Ridge. So, is that a good idea? The players, myself included, are all long time gamers, all in their 30's - 40's and have been playing 3.5 D&D for the last few years.
I started with the "A" series myself with C&C. It went awesome! If I was to do it again I would find a way to combine it with "Keep on the Borderlands", its a great classic and fits so well with Blacktooth Ridge.

Secondly, I used to use the D&D minis for my games...anyone else using those? What about the paper counters you can download off the internet, anyone have any experience using those? If so, which company makes the best one's?
I use mini's, and I use paper mini's, Fiery Dragon Productions is my favorite.

Finally, I have been using the D&D cardboard tiles for my games but am considering uisng something like the fatdragon printable ones or dunjinni. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Pretty much the only thing I've ruled out is dwarven forge, as it just takes up too much space.
The only reason I rule out Dwarven Forge is because it is so expensive. Yes, I use Fat Dragon stuff, it works great. So does Oone Games, and Skeleton Key.
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:15 pm

Howdy Rhone1.
Rising Knight is a great intro to C&C and Assault on Blacktooth Ridge is an excellent module that has lots of action or roleplaying or just straight dungeon crawling. Whatever your players like to do, it's all there.

And the thing I really like about "Assault", it's sort of open ended. You can use it as a base of operations and drop in other mods, or mini adventures. I can easily see B1 or B2 set nearby to Botkinburg or in/on/behind the Blacktooth Ridge.

I ran Shadows of the Halfling Hall in the middle of "Assault" seamlessly and it added so much to our overall campaign world.

For mapping we use graph paper and a battle mat that we can draw on and we love using minis. I also have dungeons tiles, Heroscape files and card stock and resin buildings that I use from time to time.

I've got about half of Botkinburg built.

Enjoy the game!
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Fat Dragon Games · Post by **Fat Dragon Games** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:51 am

Welcome to the crusade! I actually did Keep on the Boarderlands for our first C&C game and it was a blast. I am getting ready to run ASSAULT ON BLACKTOOTH RIDGE next and am looking forward to it.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:23 am

Rhone1 wrote:
Okay, so I'm about to start my first C&C campaign...

Welcome to the crusade!

Quote:
I was planning on running the party thru The Rising Knight first and then start Assault on Blacktooth Ridge. So, is that a good idea?

I've heard good things about both of them, but never ran them, myself (I've started C&C campaigns with Dark Chateau and the watery caverns, and with Beacon at Enon Tor leading into B1 & B2).

Quote:
Secondly, I used to use the D&D minis for my games...

Should work fine. I use minis all the time. I typically use a battlemat with 1" squares or hexes. I recently returned to using a ground-scale of 1" == 3.33 ft., as described in the 1E DMG (pg. 10, "Use of Miniature Figures With the Game).
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StealthSuitStanley · Post by **StealthSuitStanley** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:03 am

I ran Beacon at Enon Tor as a kickof for my campaign. It went very well. From there, it's been all homebrew.

Good luck and happy gaming!
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SavageRobby · Post by **SavageRobby** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:48 pm

On the subject of Minis and Terrain:

I use D&D Minis in all my games (I have literally thousands), and make liberal use tiles and terrain.

For tiles and battlemaps, I use WotC dungeon tiles, tiles I've made myself from Skeleton Key Games and World Works Games, plus I've made a fair number of battlemaps using Dundjinni. The WotC tiles are good, but I only like the dungeon based ones - the outdoors ones are too limited. SKG tiles are good, but they get expensive to cover all the bases (I do like the outside ones, however, since you can put together fairly large and varied landscapes quickly). I've use the WWG DungeonLinx tiles, but until they release more sets in this line they're pretty limited, but I make a lot of terrain-based battlemaps from the tiles in their model sets. This gives me a gridded terrain type (sand, grass, forest, plains, etc) that I can just set down and put other 3d terrain on top of. Very useful. I also make maps using Dundjinni - a case where I love the product and dislike the company that makes it (like WotC minis and tiles). Dundjinni is very useful for battlemaps, as well as doing your own dungeonscapes.

As for terrain, most of my terrain is World Works Games, with some Microtactix and Ebbles stuff, and a few free downloads from here and there (Wizards, Mongoose and others). I _love_ WWG terrain, although I've gotten away from 3D dungeon building, since its more difficult in actual practice to use on the table (sight and maneuvering space can both be issues).

(Just a note, since I know they're faves here - I haven't used FatDragons fantasy terrain, but I have some of their space stuff, and it seems of decent quality.)

As far as using minis, its pretty easy. I've learned not to be a "slave" to the grid; that is, don't use the minis and terrain as EXACT representations of the scene, but as general ones. This means each square is about 5', which gives you and the players a little leeway. I try not to get my players to count squares when they're planning moves/spells as well (thats a little cheesy), but they do it anways. We use common sense for the number of minis in a square; 1 mini/square there is no penalty, but you can fit more per square, but depending on the weapons and actions, that might cause a penalty.

For us, minis and terrain are best used in a "set piece" fashion, that is, don't necessarily plot the entire dungeon out in tiles/terrain, but instead put together the rooms and corridors where there are encounters. For smaller dungeons, I've done the entire dungeons as terrain/tiles, and it be fun, but overall I find the set piece approach to work better. I usually try to bag the minis for each encounter and put them with the terrain for that encounter, so its easy to pull them out and set them up. Once you get a system down, its pretty quick to build up/tear down an encounter, and it won't impinge on your game play time at all.

If you'd like to see some examples of terrain, here are some:

Skull Rock (a memorable encounter in our Evernight game):
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/thumbnails.php?album=74

Village of Corrah (a village where the group solved a murder mystery):
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/thumbnails.php?album=123

The Sewers (an early terrain build when I was first learning to make cardstock terrain):
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/thumbnails.php?album=77

The Abbey (a set piece that was going to be for a Seven Samurai-style adventure I never ran):
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/thumbnails.php?album=25

And for fun, here is my office and terrain storage, so you can see what happens when you become a minis/terrain addict. Beware:
http://wwgallery.pcinfoman.com/thumbnails.php?album=76

Gleemax Jr · Post by **Gleemax Jr** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:24 pm

I would start with Expedition to the Ruins of the Expedition to the Center of the Ruins of Greyhawk Castle.

heruca · Post by **heruca** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:58 pm

SavageRobby wrote:
I also make maps using Dundjinni - a case where I love the product and dislike the company that makes it

Are you aware that Fluid no longer makes Dundjinni? The program is under new ownership now (Dundjinni Enterprises). They've greatly loosened the EULA restrictions, so you can now use DJ for commercial maps and other commercial projects. A lot of people used to take issue with that, so I'm trying to help get the word out about this now policy.

There's also a new version of DJ that doesn't have problems with the newer Java versions, or with MS Vista, or with having multiple Java versions installed. Things are really looking up for this program, IMO.

TheNewGuy · Post by **TheNewGuy** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:06 pm

Welcome to C&C Rhone1! We're glad you're here in the bughouse with us!

As for figures, C&C doesn't *need* them to play, the way D&D 3.x and 4.0 do, but you can certainly use them.

For tabletop play of this kind, I would also suggest you take a look at those tabletop grid maps that you can draw on with water-based markers, and then wash off.

Even though they're not cheap, I'd recommend you buy the biggest one your budget can handle. I bought one about ten years ago (when D&D 3.0 came out) and it's proven its worth over and over in most of the games I run

For one thing, everyone can see the tactical situation at a glance, without passing maps around -- and if a situation require figurines, the mat is already to scale. And if you need to change the drawing quickly, all it takes is a damp cloth! Just be sure you get water-based markers, so they'll wash off!
Here's a LINK to the Chessex brand I bought. Unfortunately, they don't seem to have square grid mats available in the medium-size range that I bought at Noble Knight Games, except in odd or fugly colors. Your local game store might have the baseline "oyster" colored mats in a medium size ...

As for mapping programs for hand-out "orientation" maps, I'm still looking for the perfect solution to this myself. Check out the thread titled Dunjinni here, for more on that discussion.

Good luck with your game!

TheNewGuy
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Aladar · Post by **Aladar** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:54 pm

As far a minitures and tiles go....I use SJG's old Cardboard Heroes and Dungeon Tiles. They have held up very well over the years. I do not know if Steve Jackson Games still make them or not.
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angelius · Post by **angelius** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:46 pm

Dude

Just get an irregular square map from Chessex...you can use markers on them and stuff and since its "irregular" its automatically 50% off. Wash away with water and a paper towel and you're all good. Just don't get any on that stuff as you wash. Turns your hands a colour for a certain period!!!

I guess I spoil my PCs, I use a 4'x8' chessex map, dwarven forge and all the D&D minis I can get. Usually I only get the "useful" ones. You can get them for nothing. Just picked up a ton of great minis from the new set "Dungeons of Dread"

For PCs I just use Fenryll (3 stagers) or whatever Reaper mini they like. There are so many Reaper minis out there to choose from.
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