How do you have players do stats?

[Treebore]

Why do you have it done that way?

Why don't you just let a player generate their stats, so they have exactly the character they want? Assuming you don't do it this way in the first place.
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[Dristram]

I've recently been going the route of heroic stats with 3d6 rolled and the lowest turned into a 6. You'd be amazed at how many low stats are still rolled. But each character ends up with at least one 18.

I stay with rolling because I find it's a fun part of the game.

[seskis281]

I too still go with rolling:

I have them roll 4d6 and drop lowest for each,

then roll 7 total and drop lowest to get the 6 scores to distribute as they will amongst attributes.

This usually produces 4 of the six in the mid-range (11-14), one higher (16-17), one lower (8-10), only the occasional 18 without a racial mod and seldom a stat lower than 8 or 9.

Seems to work well, and it enhances the player's realization that they have to work with "what the gods gave 'em."
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[Treebore]

seskis281 wrote:
I too still go with rolling:

I have them roll 4d6 and drop lowest for each,

then roll 7 total and drop lowest to get the 6 scores to distribute as they will amongst attributes.

This usually produces 4 of the six in the mid-range (11-14), one higher (16-17), one lower (8-10), only the occasional 18 without a racial mod and seldom a stat lower than 8 or 9.

Seems to work well, and it enhances the player's realization that they have to work with "what the gods gave 'em."

The funny thing I have observed over the 15 years I have been allowing them to do their stats, they have been in the range you get most of the time. Except when its those players who want really good stats practically across the board.
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[imweasel]

Our group rolls 18d6, re-roll the lowest 3, then organize them in 6 sets of 3 dice each to get the stats.
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[Rigon]

Currently, I have the players roll 3d6, 6 times, arrange as desired. I did this because I wanted a more gritty feel to the PCs. However, I've mostly done 4d6, drop the lowest, 7 times, drop the lowest, arrange as desired and that usually worked out fine for me.

R-
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[DangerDwarf]

Generally I go with 4d6, drop the lowest. Arrange as desired.

You can roll up to three sets of six, no interchanging between sets.

One group I had, if I allowed them to choose what they wanted, it would have been 18's across the board. Every character. Thats just how they were. I made them use a 25 point buy.

[seskis281]

DangerDwarf wrote:
One group I had, if I allowed them to choose what they wanted, it would have been 18's across the board. Every character. Thats just how they were. I made them use a 25 point buy.

Evil and brutal.
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[serleran]

I no longer care what your attribute scores are, assuming they are within the boundaries of starting characters. So, if you feel you must have 18s in everything, so what. You'll not like what you face.... but at least it'll be with a PC you "think" is "good."

[StealthSuitStanley]

Here is an excerpt from my campaign notes:

E. The idea is to play a hero. The adventurers in whom the gnomes are interested show great promise. The gnomes have not selected higher level participants because most of these have responsibilities or indulgences which would prohibit their total loyalty to the Cause (see The Truth to understand the Cause). For this reason, lower level adventurers with great potential have been selected. Therefore, each player gets an ability score of 18, 16 & 14 to place in any ability they wish. The remaining three abilities are rolled using 4d6, totaling the three highest. These numbers are before racial adjustments. These high ability scores represent the characters heroic potential.

That pretty much sums it up.

Just for arguments sake, I have played in campaigns where we were given a certain amount of points to allocate to abilities as desired (normally between 80 and 95 pts. with 18 max.) and where we rolled as described in many cases by previous posters.

I ran a game once where we rolled 3d6 for each ability in order (i.e. These three are for Str., These three are for Dex., etc.) The only modification allowed was to bump an ability score to the minimum required for that class if the rolled score was lower. Otherwise, you're stuck with what you roll. Needless to say, one of the players rolled 18/86 in his strength stat! No kidding! Everyone there was watching! The only mediating event was that he rolled a low constitution and had a penalty to his HP (that and a bad roll on the d10 left him with 3 HP at 1st level). So of course, everyone pooled their money and bought this character the best armor they could afford thinking he'd be their tank.

What they didn't think about was magic... He was taken out in the first combat by a magic missile.
Honestly, I think that was when we had the best role playing. They finally learned that it was OK to run away!
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[Philotomy Jurament]

Depends on a couple of things: first, the system, and second, the assumptions going into the campaign.

For example, with my OD&D game, I like straight 3d6 for generating the numbers, because OD&D(1974) ability modifiers aren't as important as in later editions. For AD&D or C&C, where the high/low stats have a bigger impact on the mechanics, I'd go with 4d6 drop lowest or a similar "skewed" method.

What I mean by "campaign assumptions" is this: are the PCs starting off with character concepts, or are they starting of with a situation? If they're starting off with concepts, I'd let them arrange the numbers to taste (and might even let them pick their numbers, depending on the players). However, I'm also a big fan of "working with what fate gives you," instead of starting off with a preconceived PC concept. In that case, going with rolls-in-order is a lot of fun. For example, I'm working on a campaign/adventure that starts off with a shipwreck (yeah, cliched, I know). In this case, I'd start the PCs off with random rolls in order. They're just the sailors and passengers that happened to survive. Can they hack it with what fate gives them?
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[Breakdaddy]

4d6 dropping the lowest, assign at will. In the past I have also dropped the 3-18 altogether, allowing players a total of +6 for all attributes. So Strength might be +3, Dex -1, Con +3, and Wis +1 for a total of the aforementioned +6. It's quicker for one shots and when I really want to get an adventure off the ground in a hurry.

[Treebore]

I have a couple of assumptions.

1. Its not my character, so why should I determine how the stats are created? I want the player to be happy with their character.

2. I control the rest of the campaign, so as long as the characters don't have higher than an 18 + racial mod, its nothing I can't handle. The game will still be challenging, and most of all the players will be playing a character they like, so they are more motivated to keep it alive.

3. Even if they have all 18's they still die.

Another thing I find funny, DM's often comment on how they would like less PC death, then they turn around and cripple the PC's by giving them a 32 point buy, or roll straight 3d6.

I don't know about other DM's, but I have seen many characters, and parties, live because of those few extra HP's, or that extra point they had to their Dex or CON helped them make that save versus death effect, like my character did yesterday.

So I see high stats as just another way to keep the PC's alive a little longer, and have the campaign story move along further, before a TPK ends it.

Plus it assures the players, and myself, that they are playing their "perfect" character. So are happy, and motivated to play it, and to keep it alive.

The last thing I want is for a player to be unahppy with their PC and its "sucky stats", and take that negativity into the game itself. Then throw their character out front again and again until it dies so they can roll up a new one.

So I just allow my players make the character they want, and avoid all the negative attitude.

Plus I prefer playing high stat/heroic characters. Mdiocre sucks.
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[Shaeffer]

We use 84 points +1d6, distributed among the six attributes, with nothing higher than 18 (prior to figuring in racial modifiers).

[Omote]

Good ole' 3d6 method, arrange to choice. The reason for doing so is classic... it's fun to roll up characters! I believe all of my players like the idea of rolling up characters. Matter of fact, I went to a point generation method a few times. Each time I got comments saying that the preferred method of choice was 3d6.

So that players get characters they like, I often time let them roll multiple sets of attributes and pick the set they like best, of course, arranging to taste.

If attributes are not liked that much, I encourage the players to play around them. There is often benfit to this, roleplaying wise.

In my campaigns, I also have a lot of attribute increasing items. I've always liked them. If a PC needs to be un-gimped, then can always search for the secret of better attributes in game.

.........................................Omote

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[DangerDwarf]

Treebore wrote:
cripple the PC's by giving them a 32 point buy

Cripple? 32?

You must jest.

32 is a pretty good point buy. Nowhere close to crippling.

[Treebore]

32 point buy is typically what? 15, 14, 13, 10, 10, 10? OR is that 25 point buy?

Still, its not like an 18, 17, 15, 15, 14, 8, which was a 3d6, 6 out of 7. So now I have a kick but fighter with good CON and DEX to boot.

Or 18, 18, 18, 17, 17, 16 which my son rolled up using 4d6 and reroll 1's and 2's.

Of course with straight 3d6 I normally see 8, 6, 11, 9, 3, 11.

With the 4d6, reroll 1's and 2's, I normally see 18, 15, 10, 14, 16, 12.

Over the 15 years I have been allowing my players to deterine their stats however they wish over 95% of them preffered to roll, rather than assign.

Why?

Because they want a shot at those 18's. Point buys pretty much guarrantee you'll never see an 18 unless the player cripples their character in other stats.

So when a DM tells me how they want me to make their character, thats what they are doing. They are saying, "I want you to make my character my way."

Now they try and make it sound pretty. Say it makes for "balanced characters" and "balanced groups", and keeps from "breaking the game".

Bottom line is the DM is telling me to make the character their way.

So I dispense of the illusion and give the player total freedom in determining their stats in the 3 to 18 range, then racial modifiers. Only new players tend to go for all high stats. Most players are fine with a range close to this: 18, 16, 15, 13, 12, 10.

Does 32 point buy allow this range?
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[gideon_thorne]

Every score starts with a 6. Then, depending on the spread of ability one wants, one can either roll a d12 or 3d4
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[DangerDwarf]

32 point buy is what the 3e rules refer to as a High Powered non-standard point buy.

With it you can get stats like

16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10.

When I ran 3e, I let my players use a 28 point buy. It was my standard.

I understand that some folks like high stats. I'm not one of them. I like the characters to grow into high stats.

[Treebore]

DangerDwarf wrote:
32 point buy is what the 3e rules refer to as a High Powered non-standard point buy.

With it you can get stats like

16, 14, 14, 12, 12, 10.

When I ran 3e, I let my players use a 28 point buy. It was my standard.

I understand that some folks like high stats. I'm not one of them. I like the characters to grow into high stats.

So do I, but one point every 4 levels doesn't work for me. So I created house rules for characters to increase their stats during "down time". Which for my games is typically 4 months to a year or more between adventures.

My home campaign has covered over 5 years of time in Erde. This is a game where the major plot is to prevent the return of Unklar. How can this take 5 years and not have Unklar return already?

Simple, the forces of Unklar are having a hard time finding/recovering the items they need to do so. Just like the party is having a hard time finding what they need to stop Unklars return. So during the time between missions, and higher level people are trying to find likely locations for them to check next, they can spend time increasing stats, crafting their own items, etc... Such as the wizard recovering from the CON point they permanently lost from permanatizing "See Invisiblity" on themselves. It took them 4 months of time before succeeding on their check to increase their CON back to 16.

I think one of the reasons my players haven't typically gone for high stats to begin with is because they knwo they'll be able to fix those low stats in game play.

Here is somethign stupid for you in 3E. Your playing a wizard in a camapgin with the intent of going to 20th level, maybe higher. You have a wizard witha 13 INT. How are you going to be able to cast 9th level spells when you reach 18th level? You'll only have an 17 INT. You need a 19. How are you goiing to get there, to the 19? You can't unless the DM is nice enough to let you come across a Tome of Understanding +2.

At least in my game you can spend a year or two of down time increasing your INT.

To those who say, "I don't see how anyone can raise their IQ.", my answer is INT does not reflect how smart they are capable of being. IT just reflects what they know and understand at the time. Knowledge and understanding can be improved upon.
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[serleran]

Start every stat at 14 and let 'em roll 1d4 for each. That's "heroic."

Or, you can do this:

Every stat is 4d6; a plus or minus removes a number of dice. So, a +1 Strength = 5d6 rolled. Always keep best 3.

Or, this:

Modifiers to stats don't affect the scores themselves, but the modifier... so, if you're a halfling with an average Dex, you'd still get +1 to all Dex checks because your Dex mod would still be +1. But, if you happen to get awesome and roll that 18 Dex, you actually get a +4 to all Dex checks.

There are so many ways to do stats that the only way that matters is the one that makes the game fun for the players, and lets the running dude keep the game in "check."

[Treebore]

serleran wrote:
Start every stat at 14 and let 'em roll 1d4 for each. That's "heroic."

Or, you can do this:

Every stat is 4d6; a plus or minus removes a number of dice. So, a +1 Strength = 5d6 rolled. Always keep best 3.

Or, this:

Modifiers to stats don't affect the scores themselves, but the modifier... so, if you're a halfling with an average Dex, you'd still get +1 to all Dex checks because your Dex mod would still be +1. But, if you happen to get awesome and roll that 18 Dex, you actually get a +4 to all Dex checks.

There are so many ways to do stats that the only way that matters is the one that makes the game fun for the players, and lets the running dude keep the game in "check."

I would be inclined to go with 10 + 2d4. That should consistantly give heroic enough stats.
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[DangerDwarf]

Treebore wrote:
Here is somethign stupid for you in 3E. Your playing a wizard in a camapgin with the intent of going to 20th level, maybe higher. You have a wizard witha 13 INT. How are you going to be able to cast 9th level spells when you reach 18th level? You'll only have an 17 INT. You need a 19. How are you goiing to get there, to the 19? You can't unless the DM is nice enough to let you come across a Tome of Understanding +2

Not to defend d20, but truth be told its system is far better on wizards than previous editions.

Look at AD&D 2nd Edition. Without an 18 INT you cant cast 9th level spells AND you dont get to raise an attribute every 4 levels. Roll and 18 or be a "lesser" mage later on.

[rabindranath72]

DangerDwarf wrote:
Not to defend d20, but truth be told its system is far better on wizards than previous editions.

Look at AD&D 2nd Edition. Without an 18 INT you cant cast 9th level spells AND you dont get to raise an attribute every 4 levels. Roll and 18 or be a "lesser" mage later on.

This was the same for 1e AD&D, and (to a lesser extent) BECMI (wishes needed 18 stats).

I do not see why all characters should be able to cast 9th level spells.

What's the point of relying on random dice rolls, then? If the only difference is a measly bonus here and there, one might well give the characters 18 in all stats as serleran said, since in the end, if one is interested in high-level play anyway, the granted bonuses will not matter very much.

[DangerDwarf]

I do miss the days where having an 18 in a stat was noteworthy. You'd brag about it. And that was just in ONE stat.

[rabindranath72]

I guess the aspect of rolling stats is quite integral to the game and to the "feel" it conveys, yet the latest editions have severely undermined this aspect and all the consequences. BtB, neither AD&D nor D&D prevented stats increases; and in fact, many magic items could do it. Simply allowing a "mundane" increase by levels cheapens the value of these items (which were quite rare and valuable!)

It was really a pleasure to see that C&C used the old 3d6 method. What I would like to see is some method, like the one in BECMI, to "play" a little with the scores one gets at the start, but without completely altering the results.

Besides, this part of character creation in BECMI is really fun! The latest character creations session with my wife lasted more than half an hour, since she was playing with the scores she got, and she could not be decided on the type of character she wanted. Nothing munchkiny, since no relevant bonuses were involved. And in fact, she opted to have a slightly more intelligent Elf, rather than a very strong one, despite the potentially improved scores. She is a fine roleplayer

[GreyLord]

One of the nice things about the C&C and other recent games in this crop is that they don't have to roll certain stats in order to qualify for whatever class they want, hence no reason to give them a better chance to get a better stat roll.

So I do it either 3d6 in order of STR, INT, WIS, DEX, CONS, CHA,

OR

Roll 3d6 six times and arrange to tastes. Works out quite well, and if they roll low scores...well it makes them play more inventively. Primes STILL give them the advantage for certain stats normally.

[BASH MAN]

Dristram wrote:
I've recently been going the route of heroic stats with 3d6 rolled and the lowest turned into a 6. You'd be amazed at how many low stats are still rolled. But each character ends up with at least one 18.

I stay with rolling because I find it's a fun part of the game.

That's an awesome idea for how to do random generation! Much better than 4d6 drop the lowest, IMO!

As for me, I used to assign points. The points were how much the character ability score modifiers had to add up to. My typical allowance is 6 points. A character could have 2 18s and a bunch of 11s, or an 18, 16, 13, 12, 11, 10, or 2 18s, a 16, a 10, a 7, and an 8.
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[Maliki]

IMC we use 2d6+6, 7 times and drop the lowest, arrange as desired.
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[CharlieRock]

3d6.

Because ... that was the way the book said to (?).
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