Pathfinder C&C conversions?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:35 pm

Anyone want to get together with me via SKYPE to convert the PAthfinder mods? If we wait for Paizo and/or TLG to do it we may have to wait a year or two.

Then we can submit it to TLG to give to Paizo.

I want to wait until I have the print version in hand, but that should be by Wed. But we can start with Pathfinder 1 in the mean time.

Besides, with the first mod being 1st to 3rd level, most of the creatures and NPC's awill be pretty easy.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:02 pm

what is skype
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:06 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
what is skype

A program that lets you talk via computer like your on a phone. Kind of like Vonage, just the computer use is free. You only pay if you want to be able to call phones.
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Astinus · Post by **Astinus** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:57 pm

I've been thinking of starting a similar thread. I'd love to help, but I have two issues:

1. I'm on dial up, so no Skype.

2. I'm pretty new to C&C, but have more than a decade DMing AD&D.

So I'm here to do labor. So if we establish a protocol for determining XP, for example, I'm happy to go through and do a share of the grunt work. Actually, XP is what I've been grappling most with. How do we give it out so level progressions match the Pathfinder issues?

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:08 pm

Astinus wrote:
I've been thinking of starting a similar thread. I'd love to help, but I have two issues:

1. I'm on dial up, so no Skype.

2. I'm pretty new to C&C, but have more than a decade DMing AD&D.

So I'm here to do labor. So if we establish a protocol for determining XP, for example, I'm happy to go through and do a share of the grunt work. Actually, XP is what I've been grappling most with. How do we give it out so level progressions match the Pathfinder issues?

A good question. XP for treasure and "story awards" are two ways that will help, just don't know if that will be enough. One other helpful thing is Paizo has been strongly suggesting "side quests", especially in PAthfinder 2.

So far XP's are pretty easy to figure out.
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Astinus · Post by **Astinus** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:33 am

Treebore wrote:
XP for treasure and "story awards" are two ways that will help, just don't know if that will be enough. One other helpful thing is Paizo has been strongly suggesting "side quests", especially in PAthfinder 2.

Treebore, what do you think of Maliki's suggestion?

Maliki wrote:
One thing I plan to do, since level advancement is so much faster in 3E, I plan to award XPs based on the listed challenge ratings. So a goblin with a CR of 1/3 is worth 100xps far more than he would be worth btb in C&C. This will help keep the PCs more in line with the suggested levels for later adventures in the series.

I like it because I'm looking for a XP progression that keeps up with Pathfinder and doesn't depend on me arbitrarily handing out story awards.

However, and correct me if my logic is wrong, increasing the XP awards in line with SRD CR's would go some way to encouraging faster character levelling - but probably still not fast enough, considering 45K XP gets you to 10th level in SRD and only a 6th level fighter in CnC.

Once you give XP for treasure and story awards, that might bring it up to par.

The one flaw in using CRs for XP would lie in determining the CRs for monsters from the M&T (which you would use as part of side quests or whatever). Then you'd be guessing to come up with an equivalent CR. Any thoughts appreciated.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:07 am

Well, Maliki is right. A C&C xp award for a goblin is 10 XP each. However 3E (its been two plus years since I have awarded 3E XP's so I could definitely be wrong) doesn't award XP for treasure. C&C goes back to that paractice, and I think for purposes of PAthfinder we would need to use every excuse possible for awarding XP's to keep the level progression equal to the pace of the PAthfinder series.

So we will definitely need to work something like that up.
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Dyne · Post by **Dyne** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:04 am

I would love to help, but unfortunately I don't have Pathfinder yet, and I am still kinda new to the C&C rules.

DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:06 am

If you use the XP method given out in the CZ: Class Options & Skills, it should keep you pretty much on track. At first I can say for certain. Thats what I was using and it worked perfectly.

Astinus · Post by **Astinus** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:10 pm

DangerDwarf wrote:
If you use the XP method given out in the CZ: Class Options & Skills, it should keep you pretty much on track. At first I can say for certain. Thats what I was using and it worked perfectly.

Sorry, what's the CZ?

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:58 pm

Treebore wrote:
Well, Maliki is right. A C&C xp award for a goblin is 10 XP each. However 3E (its been two plus years since I have awarded 3E XP's so I could definitely be wrong) doesn't award XP for treasure. C&C goes back to that paractice, and I think for purposes of PAthfinder we would need to use every excuse possible for awarding XP's to keep the level progression equal to the pace of the PAthfinder series.

So we will definitely need to work something like that up.

Right 3E does not give XPs for gold/treasure, but they do for traps (even if you set them off), so I also plan to give XPs based on the CR for traps as well.

I also plan to treat the PCs as 1-3 level on the chart, no matter their actual level, so even at higher levels a CR of one will be worth 300 XPs.

By my calculations, basing XPs on the CRs from Pathfinder, at the end of the first volume(if the PCs overcome every listed CR in the adventure) there should be a total of 42,900 XPs. (10,725 each for 4 PCs, 8,580 each for 5 PCs and 7,150 each for 6 PCs). So depending on the number of PCs and their class, they will be 3rd to 4th level at the end of the first volume, which is about right.

I don't have the 2nd volume yet to see if this works beyond the first volume, but I hope it holds up.
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Prince of Happiness · Post by **Prince of Happiness** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:33 pm

Astinus wrote:
Sorry, what's the CZ?

Castle Zagyg, specifically what's found in the Yggsburgh book, and also the specific chapter referenced is available as a free download.

Astinus · Post by **Astinus** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:14 pm

Maliki wrote:
Right 3E does not give XPs for gold/treasure, but they do for traps (even if you set them off), so I also plan to give XPs based on the CR for traps as well.

I also plan to treat the PCs as 1-3 level on the chart, no matter their actual level, so even at higher levels a CR of one will be worth 300 XPs.

By my calculations, basing XPs on the CRs from Pathfinder, at the end of the first volume(if the PCs overcome every listed CR in the adventure) there should be a total of 42,900 XPs. (10,725 each for 4 PCs, 8,580 each for 5 PCs and 7,150 each for 6 PCs). So depending on the number of PCs and their class, they will be 3rd to 4th level at the end of the first volume, which is about right.

I don't have the 2nd volume yet to see if this works beyond the first volume, but I hope it holds up.

Right. Now that's some number crunching. And if you add XP for treasure it should round it off nicely, considering not every listed CR will likely be overcome.

But, Maliki, what would you do if you took your players on some side quests, using monsters from the M&T? Would you try and guesstimate a CR? If you use regular C&C XP for side quests, they won't be nearly as attractive to players.

Also, you might already be using this, but there is a very handy 3E XP calculator online at: http://projects.incorporeal.org/d20-tools/

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:00 pm

Side quests I'm not sure about, if it was strictly a M&T monster I would take a stab at the CR, probably after the PCs had battled it and see how easy or difficult the encounter was the closer they come to defeat or death the highter the CR. (I always felt the designers of 3E just sort of guessed at to the CR of creatures anyway, some seem so far off it make me laugh)
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:15 pm

I'm not runing Pathfinder, but if I were, I think I'd do it like this:

1. Figure out how fast the PCs need to level (i.e. by the 4th session, Pathfinder assumes level X).

2. See how much XP a Fighter needs for level X. Maybe add 1000 points or so.

Give story-based awards based on the above calculation. This will avoid the bookkeeping and number crunching and contortion required to keep the PCs on track, but also preserve balancing factor that the different XP charts bring to the classes. (It's a better approach than just saying "okay, everyone is level 4, now," which penalizes classes like the thief and cleric, which should be enjoying faster advancement than other classes as part of their overall balance.)
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Astinus · Post by **Astinus** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:56 am

Maliki wrote:
Side quests I'm not sure about, if it was strictly a M&T monster I would take a stab at the CR, probably after the PCs had battled it and see how easy or difficult the encounter was the closer they come to defeat or death the highter the CR. (I always felt the designers of 3E just sort of guessed at to the CR of creatures anyway, some seem so far off it make me laugh)

That's a pretty good call. Take the hit dice as a starting point, and then raise or lower the CR from there, based on the difficulty of the encounter, after it's played out.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:35 pm

Philotomy Jurament wrote:
I'm not runing Pathfinder, but if I were, I think I'd do it like this:

1. Figure out how fast the PCs need to level (i.e. by the 4th session, Pathfinder assumes level X).

2. See how much XP a Fighter needs for level X. Maybe add 1000 points or so.

Give story-based awards based on the above calculation. This will avoid the bookkeeping and number crunching and contortion required to keep the PCs on track, but also preserve balancing factor that the different XP charts bring to the classes.

This was my first thought of leveling the PCs, but for some reason it just didn't "feel" right.
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Philotomy Jurament · Post by **Philotomy Jurament** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:46 pm

Maliki wrote:
This was my first thought of leveling the PCs, but for some reason it just didn't "feel" right.

Oh, I agree -- it's a completely different feel (almost like you're cheap or cheating, somehow). I much prefer the traditional monsters + treasure for XP. However, "adventure path" campaigns designed for 3E use a completely different set of assumptions for the pace of advancement. To me, it's a lot easier to just accept the break with assumptions/feel, rather than spend a lot of time and effort trying to mimic that advancement with the traditional system. You end up at the same place, after all. YMMV, of course.
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kelro · Post by **kelro** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:38 pm

Quote:
However, "adventure path" campaigns designed for 3E use a completely different set of assumptions for the pace of advancement. To me, it's a lot easier to just accept the break with assumptions/feel, rather than spend a lot of time and effort trying to mimic that advancement with the traditional system.

Couldnt agree more. If I started doing my current AP in C&C over again this would be the approach I would take.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:12 pm

kelro wrote:
Couldnt agree more. If I started doing my current AP in C&C over again this would be the approach I would take.

I agree that just advancing them as needed for this AP would work best.

My only question would be about the higher levels and how they are converted. Will the classes for C&C be powerful enough to deal with what is at the higher levels.

Going by my high level game (9th to 12th) I would say yes. But I am not 100% confident about that.
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Troll Lord · Post by **Troll Lord** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:20 pm

I've been in talks with Eric Mona about the conversion since last March. We've yet to get the kinks worked out, but I'll give him a shout on the morrow and see if we can't expedite things.

Thanks,

Steve
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:51 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
I've been in talks with Eric Mona about the conversion since last March. We've yet to get the kinks worked out, but I'll give him a shout on the morrow and see if we can't expedite things.

Thanks,

Steve

Cool. I was hoping this wouldn't languish in limbo forever.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:43 pm

My print copy of issue 2 arrived today.
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DangerDwarf · Post by **DangerDwarf** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:33 pm

Still waiting on mine. My copy of the Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition shipped from Paizo the same day my Pathfinder and Game Mastery module did. I got the SW book, still waiting on the other.

ephealy · Post by **ephealy** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:16 am

Steve, it'd be awesome if Paizo allowed you to port their new monsters over to C&C. Hopefully, you can get that as part of the agreement.

Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:55 pm

Troll Lord wrote:
I've been in talks with Eric Mona about the conversion since last March. We've yet to get the kinks worked out, but I'll give him a shout on the morrow and see if we can't expedite things.

Thanks,

Steve

Good news indeed.
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Alto Banor · Post by **Alto Banor** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:37 am

Has anything happened with the Pathfinder to CC conversion? Official or Unofficial...
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Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:53 am

Alto Banor wrote:
Has anything happened with the Pathfinder to CC conversion? Official or Unofficial...

Not that I have heard of. I have yet to receive my PF 3, even though it supposedly shipped on the 6th.
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