50 Reasons LotR sucks.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:40 pm

Joe wrote:
To step onto a forum like this and even hint that LOTR sucks is like stepping into the capital building and shouting Allah akbar and wondering why everyone tackled you.

It's more fun in the local grocery store. And I'm one of those unimpressed with the movies.
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Rigon · Post by **Rigon** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:33 pm

Joe wrote:
If an awesome movie like Return bothers you, and you prefer cartoons of repeating images over and over then knock yourself out. But until you can show how it is done better it is wise to just butter your popcorn and shut thy trap.

I'd rather watch repeated images that at least stay truer to the story than the visually stunning crap that PJ did.

Quote:
To step onto a forum like this and even hint that LOTR sucks is like stepping into the capital building and shouting Allah akbar and wondering why everyone tackled you.

Why? The movie version of the LotR does suck. It sucks big hairy horse c**k! It's the book version that doesn't suck.

Quote:
I am sure if JRR was here today he would be glad they at least tried to keep it authentic.

If JRRT was alive today, he would have choked the life out of PJ for the mockery he made of his story.

Quote:
And how can you bash anyone, from turning our sacred Middle Earth known by an eclectic few into something every American child can now enjoy?

Did I miss something? I thought the story was already produced in a fomat that all American children could enjoy, but I guess reading is now to much to expect of our American children.

Quote:
The elves use wisdom along with keen sight, and keener insight to live so long.

JRRT's elves don't live long because they have keen insight, they live long because that's how they were made.
R-
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Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:36 am

The movies don't suck any sort of hairy horse parts. There were definate divergences, but I don't see where that leads to the anti-film energy getting spewed. Guess I'm not wired to be a Tolkien purist, even though I've loved the books forever. Would that make me Chaotic Good Tolkien as opposed to Lawful Good Tolkien?

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:30 am

Compared to the books, the movies suck. There's no question about that. However, there is a lot of visual stuff there that was well worth bringing to the screen. I have long ago abandoned hope of seeing a *really* good movie on anything like a regular basis. The only thing worth comparing the LotR films to is other fantasy films:
Hawk the Slayer (1980)
Dragon Slayer (1981)
Conan the Barbarian (1982)
Beast Master (1982)
The Sword and the Sorcerer (1982)
Krull (1983)
Conan the Destroyer (1984)
Ladyhawk (1985)
Legend (1985)
Red Sonja (1985)
Willow (1988)
Beast Master: Through the Portal of Time (1991)
Beast Master: The Eye of Braxus (1996)
Dragon Heart (1996)
Kull the Conqueror (1997)
Dragon Heart: A New Beginning (2000)
Dungeons & Dragons (2000)
The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)
The Scorpion King (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (2002)
The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003)
Ring of the Nibelungs (2004)
Earthsea (2005)
Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of the Dragon God (2006)
Eragon (2006)

Out of that lot, I'm inclined to say Conan the Barbarian rules the roost. I don't hold out any high hopes for the upcoming films A Song of Ice and Fire, Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight and Midnight.

All I have to say is "Let's hunt some Orc!"
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Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:47 am

The Conan the Barbarian movie was better than the LOTR movies? Did they make another one without Arnold? Beacuse that one was so Howard...

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:48 am

That's what I said. Better than LotR.
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:59 am

Hawk the Slayer is rubbish!!

(Ha! I may be the only one that gets that reference... hehe)

I had no idea the Midnight campaign setting was being turned into a movie. Interesting. Seems like it may be okay for way-low budget...

I'll leave which version of LotR sucks to the Realm of Opinion. Book or Film. Oh, the decision. I like it all, personally. Even MERP.

Yeah. I said it.

As for Conan... Well, a great film, though a different one than the LotR movies. I dig them all. Guess I'm some sort of fantasy movie hippie.

Heck, I even own Wrath of the Dragon God.

(but not the first D&D movie... I'm not -that- mad I guess I do have my limits)
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:59 am

I don't see why there was such an uproar over the movies. I was entertained and, to be honest, I have yet to finish the novels because I am usually bored to sleep after a few chapters. (c'mon how many times can the history of the ring be repeated?)

The list was funny in a making fun of current society sort of way which I love to do intently. In fact I'd possibly find a humorous '50 reasons Julian Grimm sucks' list funny as well.
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serleran · Post by **serleran** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:02 am

1) Not enough banjo. I mean, seriously, for a redneck Confederate, you'd think the man could whip a 3 string and play Devil Went Down to Georgia on key, by memory, but do you ever hear it? No. Little Julian Grimm just ain't man enough to pluck.

Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:03 am

Can't for the life of me see how that one could be preferred, but it's only my opinion of course. I'm just damn happy they're making more fantasy movies. Having the LOTR movies make a zillion bucks certainly makes that more of a reality.

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:07 am

synabetic wrote:
Hawk the Slayer is rubbish!!

(Ha! I may be the only one that gets that reference... hehe)

KoDT?

synabetic wrote:
I had no idea the Midnight campaign setting was being turned into a movie. Interesting. Seems like it may be okay for way-low budget...

Yeah, I was surprised to say the least, but there you go.

synabetic wrote:
Heck, I even own Wrath of the Dragon God.

(but not the first D&D movie... I'm not -that- mad I guess I do have my limits)

I quite liked D&D2... Hey, maybe you can answer a question for me. Berric(sp?) has a normal looking sword for most of the film, but sometime after entering the dungeon his sword changes. Does the DVD explain what the heck happened? Was the relevant scene just cut from my terrestrial viewing?
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:26 am

Matthew wrote:
KoDT?

Nope (though I'm a huge KoDT fan, so Gazebo Slayer points for you anyway!). It's from this great UK show called Spaced, starring Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, and directed by Edgar Wright. Same crew responsible for Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced

Matthew wrote:
I quite liked D&D2... Hey, maybe you can answer a question for me. Berric(sp?) has a normal looking sword for most of the film, but sometime after entering the dungeon his sword changes. Does the DVD explain what the heck happened? Was the relevant scene just cut from my terrestrial viewing?

Hmmm... good question. I don't think it's explained, from what I can recall. We still haven't dug up all of our DVDs since moving here (ahhh, unpacking). But yeah, I don't think they explain that. I'll have to check. There are some cool features, though. I was rather impressed with the DVD, considering I didn't expect all that much.

See what you've done? Now I have to explain to my wife why I'm rooting though all of these boxes...
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:37 am

Interesting that this thread is talking about movie adaptations of fantasy novels... I just saw the 'rough trailer' for the first (and possibly last) Dragonlance animated movie.

I wish I hadn't...

Moriarty the Red
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:41 am

moriarty777 wrote:
Interesting that this thread is talking about movie adaptations of fantasy novels... I just saw the 'rough trailer' for the first (and possibly last) Dragonlance animated movie.

I wish I hadn't...

Moriarty the Red

That bad, eh?

Is it up anywhere in the wilds of Zee Internets?

ETA: Oh, wait, you mean this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHrOfJ8_D0o

Hmmm... The character animation looks straight out of the 80s...
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moriarty777 · Post by **moriarty777** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:00 am

Yep... that be the one.

I don't mind animation coming straight out of the (early) 80s but trying to merge this with bad 3D CGI animation is like a mangled car wreck.

If they stuck with the older 'style' of animation, I could have been content with that... but this is just bad.

M
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:07 am

It could just be that what they mean by "rough" is that the CGI dragons are unfinished. It sure looked like that to me.

I wouldn't mind their animated homage to the D&D TV cartoon either, but I was sort of expecting... better, you know?

The voice cast seems pretty good. I guess we'll see what happens. I tend to set my hopes low with fantasy movies, shows and the like. I sort of hoped the LotR films would raise the bar a bit, considering how well produced they were, but that's what I get for hoping.

(See? I managed to get back to LotR somehow. Huzzah!)
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Keolander · Post by **Keolander** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:36 am

Joe wrote:
If an awesome movie like Return bothers you, and you prefer cartoons of repeating images over and over then knock yourself out. But until you can show how it is done better it is wise to just butter your popcorn and shut thy trap.

Hmmm, how can I say this nicely. I can't. Blow it out your keister, joe. I can tell you exactly how it could have been better. To start with, absolutely every single piece of High Medieval/Rennaisance gear should never have been greenlighted for the movie. At no time does anyone in The Lord of the Rings wear anything even remotely resembling Plate Armour. More than anything else, this was the most egregious twisting of Tolkien's work, something which he was NOTED for disliking (called it Arthurian, meaning the 15th Century Mallory-style, not 5th Century Britannian Warlord).

Quote:
To step onto a forum like this and even hint that LOTR sucks is like stepping into the capital building and shouting Allah akbar and wondering why everyone tackled you.

Wow, that has to be the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Comparing what I've said to some moron provoking a response from security over terrorism fears is the heighth of absurdity. You obviously lack any kind of skill in debate.

Quote:
I am sure if JRR was here today he would be glad they at least tried to keep it authentic. And how can you bash anyone, from turning our sacred Middle Earth known by an eclectic few into something every American child can now enjoy?

Cause it ain't Middle-Earth anymore. Its some stupid, elf-shield surfing, dwarf clown, Anduril-is-now-an-Elvish-blade, bad Hollywood attempt at telling the story of The Lord of the Rings.

Quote:
The elves use wisdom along with keen sight, and keener insight to live so long.

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:36 am

synabetic wrote:
Nope (though I'm a huge KoDT fan, so Gazebo Slayer points for you anyway!). It's from this great UK show called Spaced, starring Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, and directed by Edgar Wright. Same crew responsible for Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced

Ah right. Yeah, I am familiar with Spaced, I watched it when it originally aired over here and caught the repeats on Virgin Media just last year. I think I recall the episode you mean, but I don't remember the precise context. It's the one where Tim is working in a Game Store, gets fired and then works in a rival game Store, isn't it? Interestingly, the Game Store owners are the main characters in another cult comedy, Black Books; if you like Spaced and KoDT you'll probably like that too (hell, chances are you're already familiar with it).

synabetic wrote:
Hmmm... good question. I don't think it's explained, from what I can recall. We still haven't dug up all of our DVDs since moving here (ahhh, unpacking). But yeah, I don't think they explain that. I'll have to check. There are some cool features, though. I was rather impressed with the DVD, considering I didn't expect all that much.

See what you've done? Now I have to explain to my wife why I'm rooting though all of these boxes...

Heh, well it's for a good cause. Yeah, I think low expectations are what endeared the movie to me, but then I had low expectations for the first one and I still thought that it was terrible. Wrath of the Dragon God had a lot of references, both subtle and overt. Berric's costume was suspiciously Hawk the Slayerish, but the moment that sticks out for me is when he smashes down a wall with his sword, a pertinent comment on some of the problems with 3e.

I still want to know where that sword came from, though....

moriarty777 wrote:
Interesting that this thread is talking about movie adaptations of fantasy novels... I just saw the 'rough trailer' for the first (and possibly last) Dragonlance animated movie.

I wish I hadn't...

Heh, yeah. I posted links over on Dragonsfoot and Giant in the Playground last night. The responses have been overwhelmingly negative. Perhaps this is finally something that the Old and New School communities can agree on...
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pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:38 pm

If anyone finds the Dragonlance cartoon to show more promise than the Lord of the Rings movies, I think they need to take a few days off of work and maybe even contemplate a vacation. I am curious about the Midnight movie, it could be really awesome.

While the Lord of the Rings movies were acceptable as fantasy movies go (I like Hawk the Slayer, as cheesy as it is, and Dragonslayer as well, a fun movie), my personal hope is that the movies encouraged people of all ages to read the books and see the depth of Middle-Earth, or, at the very least, to get the unabridged audio books and listen to the whole story.

Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:53 pm

Within my own circle, my Wife read the books after she saw the movies because she became intrigued with the world and story she saw. Only problem now is since I mentioned I liked the BBC Pride and Prejudice, she is expecting that I will now read Jane Austen (two edged sword there).

My usually non-fantasy relations loved the movies and peppered me with endless questions until I beseeched them to hie themselves to the book store where all and more will be revealed.

synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:42 pm

Matthew: Thanks for the heads up! No, I haven't seen Black Books, but now I want to. I'll get ahold of the DVDs ASAP. And yeah, the Hawk the Slayer ref comes from that ep... which also has the immortal "Babylon 5 is sh%^!" if I recall correctly.

Now you have me thinking of that damn sword in WotDG. Damn you. Damn you to heck!

Oh, and it doesn't surprise me that the Dragonlance teaser is getting massive negative attention. I mean, I can take a swipe right now...

I know that Hasbro owns the rights to DL these days, but I never expected them to surprise us all with the exact same animation teams who worked on their Transformers and GI Joe cartoon properties. My only question is: Just how did they manage to develop a time machine AND work on Dragonlance?

See? Too easy. Of course, there's room to be even more cutting, but that's not how I usually roll. I'll hold out with some hope.

Only some, though.
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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:12 pm

Wow...the concept of a book being better than the movie. I think that is a given.

The 'courteous' responce I got to my post is a perfect example of the elitist armchair quarterbacking that I have alluded to.

The fact is a whole new generation and group of folks that would not read the books has been exposed to the wonderful creation of Middle Earth.

Thats a good thing in my eyes. Sorry if you can't see that.

yes...I too would rather have selfishly kept it all to myself but after seeing kids pretend to be gollum it reminded me when I was a kid living out the books.

And the superior attitude concerning reading books over movies, and the personal attacks concerning my debate skills simply reveals your own lacking.

One does not resort to personal attacks in any debate unless they have already lost.
Now...let's discuss the LOTR because by all means...this is one troll whose ire you would rather not rile. i do not wish to put my pen protector down to place the gloves on...but I have been known to do so in the past.
Those with ears let them hear.

The fact that millions were exposed to a wonderful realm, the oscars, the billions.

Sure you can be a CONSUMER and comment on disliking the movie. But as long as you sat there while others were doing will make your input worth a grain of salt. I thought my soldier analogy would be enough for others to understand.

It is like the newbie gamers that dis the great Gary Gygax. It's the Consumer vs Creator syndrome. They could not polish his dice yet feel qualified to call him a buffoon. Not by my book mister!

Hey, while we are at it let's dis JRR himslef for not having paladins. i mean what kind of fantasy world doesn't have paladins? What a pipe smoking fool JRR must have been right?

What?

So dis the phenomena all you wish. But when you hop on the bus someone else built, reading books written by someone else, to go home to watch movies made by someone else, or compare armor from a real world to a fantasy world (Pen Protector alert!), then rave all you want.

Those that do will ride their limos, to their movie set, to make another movie that you will say sucks. Yet even as you rant they get richer as you rave.

You will continue to pay your money, you will buy your popcorn, you will sit in the theatres just like the rest of the consumer cattle, and you will leave calling the creative billionaire an idiot.

Hmmm...

Just because I say Picasso sucks does not make me an art expert.

it was not perfect...but it was the best darn effort i think ANYONE could have pulled off.

My two cents for what it's worth.

Prince of Happiness · Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:36 pm

Elitist? Why, thank you!

synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:39 pm

Hmmm... this thread seems (in parts) to begin to remind me of some of the comic book /gaming forums I prefer to avoid...

(this would be a great time for someone to jump in and say "like your parts, Steve?" (me Steve, not Troll Lord Steve) )
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jman5000 · Post by **jman5000** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:45 pm

funny, throughout this whole thread (well, most of it), I keep thinking of a hilarious SNL skit featuring William Shatner.

I'm sure I don't have to explain which one

Cheers,

J.

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:48 pm

"Like your parts, Steve?" Hey, you asked for it...
Black Books is good, but be warned that the first season is better than the later ones. Something similar might be said of Green Wing, which also had a pretty good first season, but a terrible second season.

Anyway, that was just a quick disclaimer on my part, in case.
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:49 pm

jman5000 wrote:
funny, throughout this whole thread (well, most of it), I keep thinking of a hilarious SNL skit featuring William Shatner.

I'm sure I don't have to explain which one

Cheers,

J.

HA! Totally.
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Malperion · Post by **Malperion** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:07 pm

Shatner in the role of Aragorn would have brought whole untold demensions of meaning to that character. The line in ROTK "The people have found their Captain" would have resoundingly merged the spheres of geekdom.

gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:09 pm

"Dammit Strider, I'm a burglar not a volcano stopper!"
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:11 pm

Malperion wrote:
Shatner in the role of Aragorn would have brought whole untold demensions of meaning to that character. The line in ROTK "The people have found their Captain" would have resoundingly merged the spheres of geekdom.

Now that would be awesome. Pure awesome. Damn. I feel awesome just thinking of it.

Matthew wrote:
"Like your parts, Steve?" Hey, you asked for it...
Black Books is good, but be warned that the first season is better than the later ones. Something similar might be said of Green Wing, which also had a pretty good first season, but a terrible second season.

Anyway, that was just a quick disclaimer on my part, in case.

*sniff*

You're mocking my parts!

Disclaimer or no, I will hold you personally responsible if anything about the show sucks.

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