Critical Failure and Critical Hit

[miller6]

Nelzie wrote:
I like this one. If you don't mind, I would like to post this on the house rules section of my website.

Sure can. Be interested to hear any comments your players might have. I made it up on the fly a long time ago and it's worked well in my campaign ever since.

Can I get the IP of your home rules website?

Brian Miller

[johns]

I'm using the following:

Crit Hit (nat 20) - double damage

Crit Miss (nat 1) - opponent gets a free attack against you, and you must roll a Dex save or drop your weapon.

If I was going to change, I'd go for Colin's revised #4.

[bloodymage]

GutboyBarrelhouse wrote:
My old standby:

Critical Hit on natural 20: you get a free extra attack on the melee opponent you just hit, right then.

Critical Miss on natural 1: melee opponent gets a free extra attack on you, right then.

I like it!

[rabindranath72]

I generally do not like rules which assign criticals (hits and misses) just on a natural roll, since the probability of having it is equal at all experience levels. I cannot figure that a 10th level fighter has the same chance of making an error as a 1st level one. To overcome this, I usually put some threshold on the required AC to hit, and lower the required critical to hit. For example, if I roll a 18 or more AND I hit AC with 5 points to spare, then it is a critical hit. So, a 1st level fighter has an higher probability of making an error, but he can also critic on a wider range of scores than a single 20.

In the same way, when I roll a 3 or less AND I miss AC by 5 or more, I have a critical miss results.

Note that both the basic "critical" roll and the threshold can be changed, to make the critical more or less probable.

Cheers,

Antonio

[bighara1]

rabindranath72 wrote:
I generally do not like rules which assign criticals (hits and misses) just on a natural roll, since the probability of having it is equal at all experience levels. I cannot figure that a 10th level fighter has the same chance of making an error as a 1st level one. To overcome this, I usually put some threshold on the required AC to hit, and lower the required critical to hit. For example, if I roll a 18 or more AND I hit AC with 5 points to spare, then it is a critical hit. So, a 1st level fighter has an higher probability of making an error, but he can also critic on a wider range of scores than a single 20.

In the same way, when I roll a 3 or less AND I miss AC by 5 or more, I have a critical miss results.

Note that both the basic "critical" roll and the threshold can be changed, to make the critical more or less probable.

Cheers,

Antonio

I understand your thinking, and your method does address this, but -the way I look at it- the critical/fumble is the lucky (or unlucky) hit (or miss). Higher level PCs get higher BtH's and more HP to reflect their increased skill in combat. Luck doesn't rely on levels. So I personally would be hesitant to add the extra calculating to the game, just to avoid slowing things down.

IMC, getting a critical hit is that fluke shot that catches the orc just between the pieces of his armor and bites deep, etc. Whereas the fumble is that inevitable -though rare- brain cramp or misstep that causes a combatant to bobble his attack or drop his weapon or slip in a pool of blood and nearly fall. Neither happens often, but they do happen.

YMMV, of course.

[Maliki]

bighara1 wrote:
I understand your thinking, and your method does address this, but -the way I look at it- the critical/fumble is the lucky (or unlucky) hit (or miss). Higher level PCs get higher BtH's and more HP to reflect their increased skill in combat. Luck doesn't rely on levels. So I personally would be hesitant to add the extra calculating to the game, just to avoid slowing things down.

IMC, getting a critical hit is that fluke shot that catches the orc just between the pieces of his armor and bites deep, etc. Whereas the fumble is that inevitable -though rare- brain cramp or misstep that causes a combatant to bobble his attack or drop his weapon or slip in a pool of blood and nearly fall. Neither happens often, but they do happen.

YMMV, of course.

I agree, the added caclulation, while minor, is something I don't want to bother with. Plus I like the idea of a natural 20 being special, after 20 years it just sort of seems right.
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[Arioch]

I have always preferred fumble or critical system to be based upon a natural 1 or 20 it provides a bit of rarity, and also just seems natural that way

ken
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[Dragonhelm]

Rigon wrote:
That seems a bit complicated to me. This is how I handle crits/fails:
Natural 20: If the character rolls a natural 20, it is considered an automatic hit and he deals double damage.
Natural 1: If the character rolls a natural 1, it is considered an automatic miss and he loses his next turn.

R-

I do the same for a natural 20. For a natural 1, I base it on the circumstance. It may be that the character slips, drops his weapon, breaks his weapon, or whatever. It all depends on what is going on.

I used to use Good Hits and Bad Misses in 2e, but dropped it when I played 3e. The new version in the Dragon Compendium consolodates things a bit, but it works with the 3e critical hit system, which I don't like.

[Joe Mac]

Resurrecting this old crit thread...

I agree with Antonio, in that I want to include skill alongside fixed-chance, for critical hits: natural 20, or (x) over AC, to invoke a critical hit.

What would be a good number in excess of the AC (including all attack modifiers)? 10? 15? I'm inclined toward 10.

Thoughts?

[maasenstodt]

BASH MAN wrote:
What's wrong with the one from Yygsburg? On a natural 1, you have a chance of breaking your weapon, based on weapon quality. On a natural 20, you do max damage +1d4.

Could someone give me a page reference for the above rules?

Thanks!

[Dristram]

cleaverthepit wrote:
How about

Natural 20 - get to swing again

Uh, isn't this just another way of saying the 3e critical hit rule? In 3e, essentially, on a natual 20, you roll to hit again to confirm, and if you hit, you do double damage, and if you don't, you do regular damage.

In this rule, if you roll a natual 20, you roll to hit again, and if you hit, you get to roll two weapon damage dice (aka double damage), and if you don't, you do regular damage.

The only real difference being in how it's presented to the players. In 3e, you roll to confirm the crit. In this, you roll to see if you hit again. Same difference though.

FYI, in my games, on a a natual 20, the damage gains a bonus equal to the difference in AC hit vs. the AC of the opponent to reflect armored protection.

For instance, a roll to hit of 22 against a chain mailed opponent with AC of 16 will do an extra 6 points of damage. While the same to hit roll against an unarmored opponent will do an extra 12 points of damage. It reflects how it's dealier to be hit with no or lesser armor.

Also, another to hit roll is done to see if weapon damage is additionally doubled, ala confirming the crit.

It makes crits quite powerful. Crits are feared in my game which is how I think it should be.

[JRR]

Critical hit: Nat 20 does double damage.

Critcal failure: On a nat 1, I make up off the top of my head something bad that happens to you.
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[Joe Mac]

Joe Mac wrote:
Resurrecting this old crit thread...

I agree with Antonio, in that I want to include skill alongside fixed-chance, for critical hits: natural 20, or (x) over AC, to invoke a critical hit.

What would be a good number in excess of the AC (including all attack modifiers)? 10? 15? I'm inclined toward 10.

Answering my own question, I just did some number crunching. 10 over is too easy to get criticals; it's got to be 15 or 20.

15 seems to work better than 20...

[slimykuotoan]

I have been using the critical hit/fumble table on this site for quite some time now, and it's honestly the best thing that's ever happened to my campaigns, and as such is a standard given in any of my group's games...
http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_optional_rules.html

...and I'm pretty sure it can be used as is.

[Stuie]

I just started a campaign recently using C&C, and immediately went with:

Natural 20 = double damage

Natural 1 = dropped weapon

However, I think I'll implement a DEX save for the weapon drop as my one son seems to roll a LOT of ones (gotta get that d20 checked!). There was one battle in which he dropped his long sword, then his short sword, and then his dagger. Luckily the party's thief put an arrow in the kobold he had been fighting at that point.

[Nelzie]

Stuie wrote:
I just started a campaign recently using C&C, and immediately went with:

Natural 20 = double damage

Natural 1 = dropped weapon

However, I think I'll implement a DEX save for the weapon drop as my one son seems to roll a LOT of ones (gotta get that d20 checked!). There was one battle in which he dropped his long sword, then his short sword, and then his dagger. Luckily the party's thief put an arrow in the kobold he had been fighting at that point.

I have them roll another d20 after a failure and tell me the result.

Anything over 10 means no penalty. They get to add their BtH to 2nd d20 roll so eventually, it becomes a moot point and it also makes sense that a kick butt champion of a combatant wouldn't so easily drop his/her weapon.

For 2nd rolls under 10, there is a short list of possible penalties, the worst being losing the weapon outright.
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[Breakdaddy]

We use the natural 20 = Max dmg + 1d4

Natural 1= Dropped weapon, 1 round to retrieve

[Turanil]

I see that people do like simple systems. Mmmmh...

I propose something more complex:
Critical Hit: Natural 20 always hits. However, it is a "critical" hit only if the resulting to-hit number would exceed the target's AC by 10. For example, if the target's AC = 17 you must roll 27 or better (with a natural 20) to do a critical hit. A critical hit gives a bonus to dmg equal to the character's BtH up to a maximum equal to the maximum base dmg of the weapon. For example, a 7th level paladin doing a critical hit with a longsword would add +6 to his dmg, but with a dagger he could only add +4; at 9th level and beyond the paladin would add +8 to the longsword dmg and +4 to the dagger's dmg. So, the bigger the weapon, the more devastating it can be.
Fumble Hit: Natural 1 always fails. However, it is up to determine if something bad happens, based on circumstances. For example, a fighter using his weapon of specialization doesn't suffer anything bad beyond not hitting that round. Otherwise a Dex check may be called for, for the character not loosing, breaking, entangling, etc. his weapon. Usually a faled save means the character looses his next round of action getting a new weapon, retrieving the one lost, etc.

[serleran]

I've been flipping through Arduin and taking notes... muahaha.

[Turanil]

Turanil wrote:
Critical Hit: Natural 20 always hits. However, it is a "critical" hit only if the resulting to-hit number would exceed the target's AC by 10. For example, if the target's AC = 17 you must roll 27 or better (with a natural 20) to do a critical hit. A critical hit gives a bonus to dmg equal to the character's BtH up to a maximum equal to the maximum base dmg of the weapon. For example, a 7th level paladin doing a critical hit with a longsword would add +6 to his dmg, but with a dagger he could only add +4; at 9th level and beyond the paladin would add +8 to the longsword dmg and +4 to the dagger's dmg. So, the bigger the weapon, the more devastating it can be.

Okay, after some thoughts I rather propose:
Critical Hit: A natural 20 always hits. Extra damage is incurred upon the opponent when the total number rolled exceeds the opponent's AC. This extra damage is equal to the total number rolled minus the opponent's AC, capped at the maximum base weapon dmg. So if a natural 20 were rolled and the total to hit was 28 against an AC of 21, 7 extra points of damage could be delivered; however since a dagger has a base maximum weapon dmg of 4, only +4 would be added if the critical hit was scored with a dagger.

It's a mixture of the original post and my own ideas on the subject. This takes into account that a competent fighter scoring a 20 on a low AC with a longsword should do more extra dmg than a kobold scoring a 20 on a high AC with a dagger.

[Ghul]

I have a full length treatment of the subject which I've passed into the Trolls for consideration in a future issue of Crusader. Steve seemed to like the article at first glance, so hopefully it will soon reach print. In tone, but not so much in presentation, it pays homage to Carlos Parlegreco's article in Dragon #39. It's also been thoroughly play-tested by three different groups, with tweaks and adjustments made thereafter.
--Ghul

[zomben]

cleaverthepit wrote:
However, i have not developed a critical failure rule I like that meshes well with this one so here goes another shot.

When I was running a 3.x D&D campaign a few years ago, we had a house rule for fumbles that worked thusly:

If you roll a natural 1, you have 'threatened a fumble'. Roll to hit again. If you get a sucessful result, the attack is simply a failure. If you fail, then you've fumbled. A "Fumble" means your character has opened himself up to an Attack of Opportunity by whatever opponent he's fighting.

It worked pretty well, actually. Since C&C has no AoO's (that goodness!) perhaps just say that a "Fumble" allows your opponent one free hit at you.

[DangerDwarf]

I utilize a simple semi-free form method:

Natural 20: Double damage or dramatically appropriate.

For example, if fighting near an edge of a pit a critical might cause the critter to make a save to see if he is staggered by the blow and knocked in. Or, a character with a 2 handed sword might bring his blade down with such force, the critter goes to block and his weapon is sundered at the PC strikes him with a mighty blow (broke weapon and normal damage.

Natural 1: Dramtically appropriate.

Could range from slipping in blood from the combat, make a dex save or fall prone. Maybe fighting in a forest his blade gets stuck in a tree as he misses. Let go and draw a new weapon or make a str check to pull it free.

Scene circumstances dictate the possibilities, no hard and fast rules, and could be just about anything quickly resolvable but adding flavor to the combat. My players don't mind the free form nature of it and enjoy the drama it sometimes adds to a fight.

[zomben]

serleran wrote:
I've been flipping through Arduin and taking notes... muahaha.

Oh no...