Orc vs. Orc

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:47 pm

Which version orc do you guys prefer to imagine as your bad guys?

The older hog headed orcs?
http://www.otherworld.me.uk/images/Orcs1.jpg

Or the new-wave cromag orc?
http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/codex/races/orc.gif
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RakintheBlue · Post by **RakintheBlue** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:06 pm

Older version hands down.

It won't be long before the orc is just a green skin beauty, which I'm sure will be solidified by a novel with a romance between an orc and an elf or something.

Harry Joy · Post by **Harry Joy** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:42 pm

I haven't thought of orcs as being of the pig-headed variety for many years. The later version makes more sense the way the game works now. Hard to think of the older version making a half-breed race.

When I read LotR for the first time back in the day, I imagined orcs as a gruesome demi-human race, and was surprised to see them depicted as piggish in the art I eventually saw. That, and the association I now make with Star Wars bad guys, made me happy to see them imagined the way they were in Jackson's films.

Arakor · Post by **Arakor** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 12:43 pm

I have to say the Cro-Mag version ... for the simple reason that I'm a purist when it comes down to it. After all, the goblins and Uruk-hai from Tolkien's Middle-Earth are created by corrupting Noldor Elves into something dark and twisted (Silmarillion).

In the Elder Scrolls games, which the Cro-Mag image comes from, the Orcs (or Orsimeri) are also descendents of the original Aldmer who came to the world of Tamriel after Lorkhan cast down the Heart. The Aldmer split into a number of groups who subsequently become the Altmeri, Bosmeri, Chimeri (the Dunmeri), the Dwemeri and the Orsimeri.

(You know, reading this post over, makes me realise that my wife is correct: I really am a useless mine of trivia).
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Jyrdan Fairblade · Post by **Jyrdan Fairblade** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:02 pm

Orcs are always porcine in my campaigns. Sometimes more or less piggish, but definitely not hairy ape-like Cro-mags.

As a semi-aside, I've always been rubbed the wrong way by the 3e Half-Orcs are depicted in the core art. I think it's that they generally are depicted as not having any noses at all.

serleran · Post by **serleran** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:20 pm

Before Tolkien, there was real myth. In those legends, the ones which gave us the word Orc, they were related to elfs, goblins, and the like, because they were all "fey" but the orc was one of the uglier ones, and had a wide range of appearances, sometimes even able to change the way they looked. So, they are definitely brutish humanoids, but after that.... it only matters by the individual. Either is "right" and neither is "correct."

CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:44 pm

Arakor wrote:
I have to say the Cro-Mag version ... for the simple reason that I'm a purist when it comes down to it. After all, the goblins and Uruk-hai from Tolkien's Middle-Earth are created by corrupting Noldor Elves into something dark and twisted (Silmarillion).

In the Elder Scrolls games, which the Cro-Mag image comes from, the Orcs (or Orsimeri) are also descendents of the original Aldmer who came to the world of Tamriel after Lorkhan cast down the Heart. The Aldmer split into a number of groups who subsequently become the Altmeri, Bosmeri, Chimeri (the Dunmeri), the Dwemeri and the Orsimeri.

(You know, reading this post over, makes me realise that my wife is correct: I really am a useless mine of trivia).

I knew somebody read all those books in the morrowind game. Just wasn't sure who.
I prefered the piggish variety. The first material I read featuring an orc described them as appearing to be an unholy union between beast and man.

The one in the Beowulf story had tentacles and multiple heads. (I think ... not sure)

Anyway I found this interesting bit

Quote:
For some time they were often depicted with pig-like faces, although there is no such description in Tolkien's work. A possible explanation of this is the coincidence with Irish orc (cognate of English pork) that means 'swine'. An alternative theory is that they were often depicted as pig-like due to the tusked and pig-like description of the orco (ogre) in Canto 17 of Ariosto's Orlando Furioso. (The orco is, of course, described as pig-like because it gave Ariosto a chance to rhyme orco with porco "pig".)

Here:
http://www.reference.com/search?q=orc

There sure were a lot of different orcs in the world.
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Yamo · Post by **Yamo** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:20 pm

I've never been a big Tolkein fan, so I say old-school D&D all the way. They gotta rhyme with "pork" for a reason, right?

pactmaster · Post by **pactmaster** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:56 pm

I sort of like the "croc" head that is somewhat fashionable.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:27 pm

The version I designed.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:39 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
The version I designed.

Did you draw the one in the M&T?
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Tadhg · Post by **Tadhg** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:44 pm

I don't have a preference for either and generally like to see variety and so I also like the croc and Peter's orc.
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:50 pm

CharlieRock wrote:
Did you draw the one in the M&T?

Yup!
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Turanil · Post by **Turanil** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:55 pm

I prefer the cromagnon type since in my games orcs become Wendols (13th Warrior movie), that is, some kind of neanderthal brutes.

However, when it comes solely to minis, the pig-headed orc (Gamorhean type) is great, and if I see one in the LGS I will buy it! On the other hand, I don't like Rakham's orc mini.
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deimos3428 · Post by **deimos3428** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:58 pm

Can't afford to miss this opportunity to mention LA, wherein you can play either the porcine version (veshoges) or the cro-magnon version (orcs). As if that's not enough, you've got the oaf as well, which is akin to an ogre. So put me down for both!

Matthew · Post by **Matthew** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:10 pm

Somewhere imbetween...

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Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:34 pm

I really like these fellows:

[/img]
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synabetic · Post by **synabetic** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:56 pm

I prefer neither. I'm more of a Warhammer Ork kinda guy. Although I do like that hybrid version Matthew posted a couple posts ago... But that's if I have to choose between the two. Otherwise I've always replaced the D&D orcs with WH Orks since I was a kid... weird quirk, I guess.
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johns · Post by **johns** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:05 pm

I liked the orcs as drawn in module A1, which is closer to the cro-magnon than the porcine.

Treebore · Post by **Treebore** » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:40 pm

Like I said elsehwere, I believe on DF, the Biologist in me goes with Cro Mag because I can believe that it would create half breed spawn with humans.

The pig heads make it harder for me to believe it.
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ssfsx17 · Post by **ssfsx17** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:47 am

For me, it totally depends.

If you allow half-orc characters in the games you run then orcs look like cro-magnons.

If you disallow half-orc characters in the games you run then orcs look like piggies.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:21 pm

I find that trying to mix heroic fantasy and serious zoology makes my follicles ache.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:43 pm

ssfsx17 wrote:
If you disallow half-orc characters in the games you run then orcs look like piggies.

Well either that or you could run it with the piggies , allow half-orcs, wait for it to sink in, watch the PC inspired genocide of everything orc (and maybe pig as well).
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Julian Grimm · Post by **Julian Grimm** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:57 pm

Personally I like the versions in the LOTR films. Also Pete's take in M&T is pretty much spot on to what I think they should look like. I never likes the Piggy versions since they look like a Woogalore form Private Eyes.
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:20 pm

Julian Grimm wrote:
Personally I like the versions in the LOTR films. Also Pete's take in M&T is pretty much spot on to what I think they should look like. I never likes the Piggy versions since they look like a Woogalore form Private Eyes.

I like the M&T version, too. Just didn't think of it when I made the poll (this was a repost orginally from GGames).

The M&T version makes me think of Gremlins. Just ... Gremlins on steroids with blades. Yeah, perfect.
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Omote · Post by **Omote** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:44 am

Personally, I'm new wave on this one. Nostalgically though, I still like the pig-face. Maybe I'll just use both versions as differing types of orc.

-O
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CharlieRock · Post by **CharlieRock** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:43 pm

Omote wrote:
Personally, I'm new wave on this one. Nostalgically though, I still like the pig-face. Maybe I'll just use both versions as differing types of orc.

-O

I'm picturing a scene like the one in the Star Trek:The Next Gen Time Travel episode. Where they went to Cpt. Kirk's Enterprise and seen the Klingons from that period and quized Worf about them.
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Maliki · Post by **Maliki** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:18 pm

Between the two, I'd go with the Cro-mag look. (I normally go with the Cro-mag look with just a touch of pig)
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gideon_thorne · Post by **gideon_thorne** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:37 pm

I like my friendly neighborhood sexy orc ladies myself.

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Lucifer_Draconus · Post by **Lucifer_Draconus** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:13 pm

gideon_thorne wrote:
I like my friendly neighborhood sexy orc ladies myself.

Yes you gotta love sexy orc ladies .

I prefer cro-mag orcs or WH orcs.I've never liked the porcine kind of orc.

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