Magic Item Creation Conundrum

[tcabril]

All-

As I have stated before - I am a new convert to C&C and find the game to be very cool.

However, I am trying convert others from my gaming group, and having tackled the FEAT issue - I now find myself running into the issue of Magic Item Creation or even purchase.

The issue is - in current D&D 3rd edition games it is relatively easy for players to either create or purchase magic items (low level spell casters can create potions and scrolls that make them much more powerful and usefull - at the cost of some coin, time and a slowere XP progression).

C&C is not so easy.

For example a cure light wounds potion in C&C is 300GP while it is only 50GP in D&D.

What I want to know is - can one import the D20 Magic Creation rules into C&C (and if so - is it easy?) or how does one either convince players that C&C is better (not so easy) or just get around this issue?

I have been torn between hating the Magic Item creation/aquistion rules in 3.0 and loving them - dependant on the circumstances.

I am just looking for imput or advice.

Thanks

[serleran]

If you want people to have easier access, lower the prices, or reduce the item creation rules from where they are, to a lower level. Alternatively, you can drop in potions whenever you give out treasure rewards. If you want an extraordinarily high magic level, you could use the D&D rules exactly, but note that will mean the PCs are incredibly more powerful than the monsters they encounter, so, I recommend using more, and tougher monsters to compensate, without adjusting their treasure (in fact, it might be better to reduce it by 33%).

There's no reason your players can't get potions of cure light wounds. Your the CK. Just give it to them. Hell, it could be a "you'll need this on your next mission" type fringe benefit.

Other ways include having a member of a faith (cleric or paladin, for example) able to get a discount at his church.

Personally... I hate the 3.X method. I think its hand-holding and would never suggest using it. But, if you must, you must.

[gideon_thorne]

Welp. In short. C&C isn't supposed to coddle players. Its about using the resources at hand or by dint of effort aquiring various items.

If the prices are too high, knock em down. But this does depend on how high a magic content one wants in ones game? Do the players and game master want a challenging world? Or do they want a Monty Haul campaign?

Hell, if the players dont want to pay high cost, have a thief-mage around who can purloin scrolls and such from other spell casters.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[tcabril]

Please don't get me wrong - I think C&C is fine the way it handles Magic Items - its just trying to convince people that have been Spoiled by 3.5 D&D that is the problem.

[miller6]

Why worry about making or buying magic items?

- If you're a CK, just put one in a dungeon. If it's a new magic item, just write it up and put it in a dungeon.

- If you're a player, go get one from a dungeon. If you want a magic item that doesn't exist, write it up then ask the CK to put it in a dungeon for you to find it.

Hey, problem solved. That was easy.
Brian Miller

"My character just learned how to make magic items so the CK changed his name."

"Oh yeah, what's he called now?"

"NPC."
_________________
"The adventure continues"

[Omote]

Another way to go around the "high cost" of creating magic items in C&C (especially when it comes to Healing Potions) is to have a relatively low-costing herbal remedy. These remedies could be rare, but less expensive, or could be just as common.

I would suggest looking at Gary Gygax's WORLD BUILDER for some excellent ideas on herbal remedies.

To supplement the rules for magic item creation in C&C, it is good to think about this outside the normal rules for such things. Possibly go a whole different route all together.

.....................................Omote

FPQ
_________________
> Omote's Advanced C&C stuff <
Duke Omote Landwehr, Holy Order of the FPQ ~ Prince of the Castles & Crusades Society

[gideon_thorne]

Omote wrote:
Another way to go around the "high cost" of creating magic items in C&C (especially when it comes to Healing Potions) is to have a relatively low-costing herbal remedy. These remedies could be rare, but less expensive, or could be just as common.

One can simply expand on the Ranger or Druid's herb lore for this. Or even an intelligence check plus cost of materials for more alchemical oriented mages.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[serleran]

Or, they can just wait and get what we sort-of worked out together... your healer class, and my herbal lore document. Until then, though, there's numerous ways to bypass costs, the easiest of which is to ignore them and make them what the CK wants. That's the glory of being the CK.... play and alter as you see fit.

[gideon_thorne]

Actually. I can see a couple more solutions. Assassin's are adept at poisons and can garner the resources for such from a number of sources. Logically, one can simply roll an extended class abiltiy check and use the assassin's lore for 'cures' as well.

Clerical balms are a given. Low level heal spells cast into a given poltice can make a one shot healing item.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[james_austintx]

serleran wrote:
Or, they can just wait and get what we sort-of worked out together... your healer class, and my herbal lore document. Until then, though, there's numerous ways to bypass costs, the easiest of which is to ignore them and make them what the CK wants. That's the glory of being the CK.... play and alter as you see fit.

What is the healer class you speak of?

[Treebore]

I would keep the magic item creation levels at what is recommended in the C&C PH. As for the rest of 3E's magic item creation rules, such as level requirements (which will obviously be higher for C&C), spells needed, and costs (get rid of the xp requirement), keep them.

Now you may ask, well in C&C you have to be a minimum of 12th level to make the item, so that would be a +3 Armor. How do they make the +1 and +2 items? Just like they do in 3E. they have to wait until 9th or 12th level, but there is no reason why they can't lower "their level" for purposes of weaker enchantments.

Hey, it takes time and money to make these things. the more powerful they are the more money and time it takes, so weaker items are the most common simply because of this.

My problem is metamagic feats. I have been trying to figure this one out for weeks. I have no problem with spell mastery. Others I have decided to use the old 2E versions of extending feats, etc... As for energy substitution feats I have decided that will be a power they gain at 10'th level. They will be allowed to change any energy type to another energy type as desired. They will just not be able to do it on the fly. the spell will have to be memorized that way. So if they want a fireball that is an acid ball they will have to memorize it as such. Energy Admixture is considerably more powerful, so I am thinking of making it 14th level and requiriing it being memorized as well.

I am thinking of saying the energy substitution can become "on the fly" at 14th level when they gain energy admixture. I don't think I will ever want energy admixture to become on the fly. If I do it will be at 18th level, or maybe 20th.

Hope that helps.

[gideon_thorne]

james_austintx wrote:
What is the healer class you speak of?

Its something I wrote up for a Crusader article.
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley

[serleran]

Metamagic is easy:

Alter Magic (Intelligence or Wisdom): Powerful spellcasters have the ability to alter their spells, whether it be area of effect, duration, or any other variable, including damage, turning an ordinary spell into a specific, single-use variety. Each variation has a difficulty associated with it, making the check harder, and multiple changes are possible, with cumulative penalty. A failure causes the wizard some serious problems, making spell casting impossible for 1 round per level of the spell that was attempted, and there is a draining of Constitution, as indicated on the table below. Also, as shown, there are things the wizard can do to increase chance of success, but it should be nearly impossible to make use of them on any consistent basis. A spellcaster gains this ability at 5th level.
Effect / Difficulty / Temporary Constitution Lost

Increase Range by Base* / 2 / 1d3

Base Range Increased to Higher / 4 / 1d6

Do not need Verbal / 1 / 1d3

Do not need Somatic / 1 / 1d3

Do not need Material / 1 / 1d3

Duration Increase to Higher* / 3 / 1d3

Double Duration / 4 / 1d6

Triple Duration / 6 / 1d8

Quadruple Duration / 8 / 1d10

Quintuple Duration / 10 / 1d12

Permanent Effect / 20 / 2d8 (success results in 1 permanent)

Casting Time* / 2 / 1d3

Instant Casting / 4 / 1d6

Affect +1 Level or HD* / 2 / 1

Switch from Caster to Another / 5 / 1d4

Switch from Touch to 10 / 3 / 1d3

Double Area of Effect / 6 / 1d6

Triple Area of Effect / 9 / 1d8

Area of Effect to 10 Radius / 2 / 1d3

Additional Die of Damage* / 3 / 1d4

Additional +1 Point of Damage* / 1 / 1

Base Die to Higher Type / 5 / 2d4

Save Penalty of 1* / 2 / 1d3

Allow No Save / 16 / 1d10

Cast in Armor to AC 14 / 6 / 1d3

Cast in Armor to AC 16 / 9 / 1d6

Cast in Armor to AC 20 / 12 / 1d10

Maximum Effect / 10 / 1d12

Double Maximum Effect / 20 / 3d8

*Multiples are allowed of this type, to a maximum of the spells level

Example: A 5th level wizard wishes to increase the range of Lightning Bolt, a 3rd level spell, by the base amount. This may be done 3 times, since the spell is 3rd level.
Control Effect / Bonus

Instant Casting to 1 Round / +2

Double Casting Time / +3

Triple Casting Time / +5

Double Material Component Value / +2

Triple Material Component Value / +4

Area of Effect / +1

Reduce Damage by 1* / +1

Allow a Save / +3

Save Bonus of +1* / +1

Unique Spell to Caster / +3

Within a Pentacle / +2

Minimize Effect / +3

Per Hit Die of Sacrifice* / +1

Obviously, abilities which don't appear could be added, like "Change Type of Damage" / +3 / 1d4 or "Auto-Recast" +12 / 2d6

[Treebore]

Well, i was trying to come up with something easy and requiring little work to implement. But since you did everything "hard" for me I guess I'll just use your work instead.

[miller6]

I must admit, I thought "enchant an item" should've been included in the C&C Players Handbook as a wizard spell.

Brian Miller
_________________
"The adventure continues"

[serleran]

serleran in Web Enhancement wrote:
Enchant (6th level): This spell allows the caster to prepare a nonmagical item for magical enchantment. The item must be one

of superior craftsmanship, that is, have a gold piece cost equal to at least 15 times that of the same item at regular gold piece

cost. Once cast, the item remains in a state of receptivity for a number of weeks equal to the casters level. If the caster wishes

to give the item a +1 bonus, this spell must be cast again, within the first week, and then, subsequently on the same day, each

following week, until the desired magical bonus is reached. If the caster desires to give the item charges, or an ability which is

permanent, the same spell must be cast daily until the number of charges is reached; for an item with a permanent power, the

same spell must be cast each day until the duration of the enchant ends. On the last day of this spells duration, permanency

must be cast, or the item is rendered a temporary magic item, its powers lasting a number of days equal to the casters level.

CT 8 hours; R touch; D 1 week / level (special); Sv --; SR --; Comp V, M.

Not difficult.

[gideon_thorne]

miller6 wrote:
I must admit, I thought "enchant an item" should've been included in the C&C Players Handbook as a wizard spell.

Brian Miller

With the magic item creation rules in the M&T, such a spell is unneccessary. ^_^
_________________
"We'll go out through the kitchen!" Tanis Half-Elven

Peter Bradley